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-   -   Toll Tag (https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=249113)

jonny0024 11th July 2019 11:44 AM

Toll Tag
 
:bikerie:
Who uses a toll tag? I want to get one for the bike sick of looking for a change,
one of the providers says it works from your pocket, does it? anyone tried
has anyone made anything up to keep the water out of the tag?

Cheers

Havoc123 11th July 2019 11:58 AM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[url]https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=244027[/url]

jonny0024 11th July 2019 12:09 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=Havoc123;3575857][url]https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=244027[/url][/QUOTE]

Legend Cheers:thumbsup2:

Duke RR 11th July 2019 04:27 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
im with this guy

[QUOTE]Hell they should let bikes pass free. Delay as long as you can - F them[/QUOTE]

efanton 11th July 2019 05:15 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=Havoc123;3575857][url]https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=244027[/url][/QUOTE]

Great idea, if you want to pay double.

Official toll rate for motorcycles for Shannon tunnel €1.00
[url]https://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/tolling-information/toll-locations-and-charges/limerick-tunnel/[/url]


Toll charged by easytrip.ie for motorcycles €1.90
(same as a car)
[url]https://www.easytrip.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Toll-Rates-2019.pdf[/url]

Be careful to check what these 'toll tag' companies are charging, it might not be the official rate.

Rainman 11th July 2019 05:35 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
Hell they should let bikes pass free. Delay as long as you can - F them

[QUOTE=Duke RR;3575868]im with this guy[/QUOTE]

This strategy worked in England years ago when I lived there, Bikes would take ages to carefully take off their gloves, find change, drop said change on the ground, dismount bike, root around on the ground for the change, back on the bike, drop a glove, off the bike again, and so on, caused such mayhem at tolls such as the Dartford tunnel and Humber bridge with tail backs that they now just open the barrier for bikes and let them through, another strategy (if yer well heeled) is to hand over a fifty note from a well buried wallet and then carefully put 49 Euros worth of notes and change back safely before riding away. The only problem with this working here, is that no fecker complains, so the toll operator will probably not bother informing the toll company about the tailbacks and the dozy cage drivers won't complain either, the Brits are world class whingers, which is why it probably worked so well over there.

SoulX 11th July 2019 06:19 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=Rainman;3575871]Hell they should let bikes pass free. Delay as long as you can - F them



This strategy worked in England years ago when I lived there, Bikes would take ages to carefully take off their gloves, find change, drop said change on the ground, dismount bike, root around on the ground for the change, back on the bike, drop a glove, off the bike again, and so on, caused such mayhem at tolls such as the Dartford tunnel and Humber bridge with tail backs that they now just open the barrier for bikes and let them through, another strategy (if yer well heeled) is to hand over a fifty note from a well buried wallet and then carefully put 49 Euros worth of notes and change back safely before riding away. The only problem with this working here, is that no fecker complains, so the toll operator will probably not bother informing the toll company about the tailbacks and the dozy cage drivers won't complain either, the Brits are world class whingers, which is why it probably worked so well over there.[/QUOTE]

There was a protest over there years ago,they got a few hundred bikes to block each lane and do the 50 thing.There was tail backs for miles.Bikes are toll free now on that bridge.:lbhbh:

efanton 11th July 2019 06:52 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=Rainman;3575871]Hell they should let bikes pass free. Delay as long as you can - F them



This strategy worked in England years ago when I lived there, Bikes would take ages to carefully take off their gloves, find change, drop said change on the ground, dismount bike, root around on the ground for the change, back on the bike, drop a glove, off the bike again, and so on, caused such mayhem at tolls such as the Dartford tunnel and Humber bridge with tail backs that they now just open the barrier for bikes and let them through, another strategy (if yer well heeled) is to hand over a fifty note from a well buried wallet and then carefully put 49 Euros worth of notes and change back safely before riding away. The only problem with this working here, is that no fecker complains, so the toll operator will probably not bother informing the toll company about the tailbacks and the dozy cage drivers won't complain either, the Brits are world class whingers, which is why it probably worked so well over there.[/QUOTE]

There some law in Ireland regarding cash transactions, that I cant find on the interwebs, that allows a retailer to refuse to change a large note for a small purchase.

SoulX 11th July 2019 06:55 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=efanton;3575878]There some law in Ireland regarding cash transactions, that I cant find on the interwebs, that allows a retailer to refuse to change a large note for a small purchase.[/QUOTE]

If that's all you have then it's not like you can run next-door to the pub for change.
And if you're not refusing to pay then there's nothing they can do.
AFAIK that only applies to 500 euro notes anyway.

efanton 11th July 2019 07:34 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=SoulX;3575880]If that's all you have then it's not like you can run next-door to the pub for change.
And if you're not refusing to pay then there's nothing they can do.
AFAIK that only applies to 500 euro notes anyway.[/QUOTE]

As far as I recall its something like they not have to accept a €20 note for something as small as a 20c purchase. Same with €50 and €100 notes. Just because they dont have to does not mean they wont, but they are entitled to refuse. Same thing with coins, its something like they can refuse to accept I think it is 25 coins or more for a single purchase.

So yes if you turn up to a toll with a €50 note or a bag full of 5c coins they can legally refuse you. Cant remember the history behind it but I think it was to do with a farmers protest way back in the 70's. The farmers protested by paying a fee in bags and bags of coins so they introduced a law to prevent that sort of protest happening again.

SoulX 11th July 2019 09:22 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=efanton;3575883]
So yes if you turn up to a toll with a 50 note or a bag full of 5c coins they can legally refuse you.[/QUOTE]

Not so.There is a limit where they can refuse coppers,I think it's 10e or something
but they cant refuse a 50e note.They could refuse a 500e note,I know because I did once.
:thumbsup2:

efanton 11th July 2019 10:47 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=SoulX;3575889]Not so.There is a limit where they can refuse coppers,I think it's 10e or something
but they cant refuse a 50e note.They could refuse a 500e note,I know because I did once.
:thumbsup2:[/QUOTE]

They CAN refuse a 50 note. Because they accepted one from you, is just good will on their part, not them exercising their legal entitlement.

SoulX 11th July 2019 10:52 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=efanton;3575894]They CAN refuse a €50 note. Because they accepted one from you, is just good will on their part, not them exercising their legal entitlement.[/QUOTE]

They can't,it's legal tender.

EDIT.Just consulted my retail adviser and she said you can refuse coppers for a sale over 2e
but not a 50e note.

efanton 11th July 2019 11:18 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[B][/B]Not going to argue with you. Legal tender do you really know what that means?

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender[/url]

[QUOTE]Generally, designation of a particular form of money as legal tender means "that the designated money is valid payment for all debts [B]unless there is a specific agreement to the contrary[/B]".[2] In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (where the obligation to pay may arise at the same time as the offer of payment). For example, vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote. Shopkeepers may reject large banknotes: this is covered by the legal concept known as [B]invitation to treat[/B].
[/QUOTE]



[url]https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender[/url]

In England !p and 2p coins are ONLY LEGAL tender up to a value of 20p
In other words if you go into a shop and try by something worth more than 20p and attempt to pay in 1p ans 2p coins the shop can legally refuse to accept your coins. They are not legal tender anymore just worth their scrap metal value, unless you change that amount of coins at a bank.

There are similar rules in Ireland regarding coins, and the attempt to buy low value items with high value notes.

Most retailers, will change high value notes for low value items out of good will and courtesy, despite being legally entitled to refuse. Just because you are legally entitled to do something does not mean you have to do it.


[url]https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/6931007/why-shops-might-be-able-to-refuse-your-small-change/[/url]
More there about what is considered legal tender.

Also did you know that 1c and 2c coins are still legal tender. Why cant you use them in a shop if your argument that a shop can not refuse legal tender was true.
If you were right about your so called legal tender then shops could not under any circumstances refuse a €50, €100 or €500 note as they would be breaking the law. Their are laws in place that allow retailers to refuse payment in certain circumstances.

SoulX 12th July 2019 12:13 AM

Re: Toll Tag
 
I take it you don't work in the real world?
Public service?
A bank note is worthless except for the guarantee from the nations central bank to honour a promise to exchange for goods or services valued at up to the marked amount.
Not between amounts,up to the amount.
If you worked in the real world and refused to accept a 50e note from a customer,you would be making a sudden career change.:thumbsup2:

BTW you can still use 1 and 2 cent coins,the eu are trying to phase them out so shops round up or down so you don't need to.
I've never had anyone refuse one.

efanton 12th July 2019 12:25 AM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=SoulX;3575897]I take it you don't work in the real world?
Public service?
A bank note is worthless except for the guarantee from the nations central bank to honour a promise to exchange for goods or services valued at up to the marked amount.
Not between amounts,up to the amount.
If you worked in the real world and refused to accept a 50e note from a customer,you would be making a sudden career change.:thumbsup2:

BTW you can still use 1 and 2 cent coins,the eu are trying to phase them out so shops round up or down so you don't need to.
I've never had anyone refuse one.[/QUOTE]

I do work in the real world. What I have said is true. You are mixing up the terms currency and legal tender. They are not the same thing.

Like I have said, just because a shop has the legal right to refuse a 50 note for a 50c purchase doesnt mean they will do that. But if a protest was organised where bikers turned up to toll booths with 50 notes you would quickly see the toll operators exercising their legal rights and you not getting through the toll.

SoulX 12th July 2019 12:34 AM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=efanton;3575898] you would quickly see the toll operators exercising their legal rights and you not getting through the toll.[/QUOTE]

So what are they going to do?Make me turn around?
Hold up the queue while I walk to the shop for change?
Cmon,seriously?Have you ever dealt with the public?

efanton 12th July 2019 01:09 AM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE]They can't,it's legal tender.[/QUOTE]

Thats what you said, but yes they can, and by your own admission you have since agreed that LEGAL CURRENCY can be refused in a cash payment in certain circumstances

[QUOTE]Just consulted my retail adviser and she said you can refuse coppers for a sale over 2e [/QUOTE]

Likewise they can refuse a €50 note, or indeed any note, if the amount owed is a tiny fraction of the notes value. Because what you are offering is NOT legal tender it is currency.

If you want to get all legal about it here goes.
In fact when you buy something in a shop legal tender is not involved. The shop keeper has offered you something at a price and by paying them that amount in currency you are offering that amount. They then can accept or refuse your offer. Legally its something like bartering,
the legal term for this is "invitation to treat".

Legal tender is only involved when there is a debt. You have already eaten a meal, you are paying for a service already provided etc,etc that's where legal tender comes into it, currency is what you are talking about.

Until currency has been exchanged (if we are talking about physical money and not digital money) there is no contract and a retailer has every legal right to refuse custom no matter what currency you try to give them except on the ground of gender, race etc etc.
However there are laws, regarding how many coins you can use in a single transaction that cannot be refused, I can confirm now that legally it is no more than 50 coins per transaction in Ireland (I just asked someone who would know the law)

The central bank issues guidelines, that most retailers adhere to, with regards to high value notes and coins, but these are guidelines that no retailer is obliged to follow.
How do I know all this, had a girlfriend studying commercial law and got sick of hearing stuff like this that made little sense



I really doesnt matter what I say at this point, you are going to be right even if you are completely wrong, so lets end it there.

The point is

jic44 12th July 2019 08:24 AM

Re: Toll Tag
 
Just ride round the barrier

Chickenhawk 12th July 2019 10:16 AM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=jic44;3575902]Just ride round the barrier[/QUOTE]

Given same advice by the booth operator once while rooting for the money.

Why are you even stopping she said.

Haven't paid since.

Slow right down.
Friendly wave.
Ride on.

Rainman 12th July 2019 11:05 AM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=Chickenhawk;3575904]Given same advice by the booth operator once while rooting for the money.

Why are you even stopping she said.

Haven't paid since.

Slow right down.
Friendly wave.
Ride on.[/QUOTE]

Irish solution to an Irish problem, love it :thumbsup2:

Duke RR 12th July 2019 12:03 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=Rainman;3575871]Hell they should let bikes pass free. Delay as long as you can - F them .[/QUOTE]

i will pull up, side stand down, get off the bike, take off the gloves, go rooting for my wallet - as its the safest place to keep money and go from there. And then repeat in reverse. Sometimes i cant find my wallet , so i have to check all my pockets , this in turn echoes in sweet beeps being carried by the breeze through the toll barrier from angry and frustrated cagers who queue up from behind.

renniks 12th July 2019 12:27 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=Duke RR;3575913]i will pull up, side stand down, get off the bike, take off the gloves, go rooting for my wallet - as its the safest place to keep money and go from there. And then repeat in reverse. Sometimes i cant find my wallet , so i have to check all my pockets , this in turn echoes in sweet beeps being carried by the breeze through the toll barrier from angry and frustrated cagers who queue up from behind.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget to pickup any coins you see on the ground too!

Duke RR 12th July 2019 12:55 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=renniks;3575915]Don't forget to pickup any coins you see on the ground too![/QUOTE]

:doh: you know what, i never thought of that !!

:thumbsup2:

SoulX 12th July 2019 09:38 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=efanton;3575901]Thats what you said, but yes they can, and by your own admission you have since agreed that LEGAL CURRENCY can be refused in a cash payment in certain circumstances



Likewise they can refuse a 50 note, or indeed any note, if the amount owed is a tiny fraction of the notes value. Because what you are offering is NOT legal tender it is currency.

If you want to get all legal about it here goes.
In fact when you buy something in a shop legal tender is not involved. The shop keeper has offered you something at a price and by paying them that amount in currency you are offering that amount. They then can accept or refuse your offer. Legally its something like bartering,
the legal term for this is "invitation to treat".

Legal tender is only involved when there is a debt. You have already eaten a meal, you are paying for a service already provided etc,etc that's where legal tender comes into it, currency is what you are talking about.

Until currency has been exchanged (if we are talking about physical money and not digital money) there is no contract and a retailer has every legal right to refuse custom no matter what currency you try to give them except on the ground of gender, race etc etc.
However there are laws, regarding how many coins you can use in a single transaction that cannot be refused, I can confirm now that legally it is no more than 50 coins per transaction in Ireland (I just asked someone who would know the law)

The central bank issues guidelines, that most retailers adhere to, with regards to high value notes and coins, but these are guidelines that no retailer is obliged to follow.
How do I know all this, had a girlfriend studying commercial law and got sick of hearing stuff like this that made little sense



I really doesnt matter what I say at this point, you are going to be right even if you are completely wrong, so lets end it there.

The point is[/QUOTE]

Well done,a carefully crafted,long-winded reply that still doesn't answer my question.
Are you a politician by chance?
I think you are,given that you have,at best,a tenuous grasp of reality,you spent ages shiteing on while not answering a question and you go on for ages without saying anything.
So which party?I'm going for the greens.:thumbsup2:

efanton 12th July 2019 09:50 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
People like you make me laugh, but do carry on.:lbhbh:

Have you figured out what the term legal tender means yet

SoulX 12th July 2019 10:18 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=efanton;3575939]People like you make me laugh, but do carry on.:lbhbh:

Have you figured out what the term legal tender means yet[/QUOTE]

Couldn't give a shit tbh,I just enjoy winding lads like you up.
Sure half the time I'm just making shit up as I go along :lbhbh:


Still haven't answered my question btw,:rolleyes2:

efanton 12th July 2019 10:56 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
you asked a question? a serious one?

this should be good

SoulX 12th July 2019 11:42 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
I did but you were so busy googling pointless nonsense it must have passed you by :lbhbh:

Clewb 14th July 2019 11:02 PM

Re: Toll Tag
 
[QUOTE=efanton;3575901]Thats what you said, but yes they can, and by your own admission you have since agreed that LEGAL CURRENCY can be refused in a cash payment in certain circumstances



Likewise they can refuse a 50 note, or indeed any note, if the amount owed is a tiny fraction of the notes value. Because what you are offering is NOT legal tender it is currency.

If you want to get all legal about it here goes.
In fact when you buy something in a shop legal tender is not involved. The shop keeper has offered you something at a price and by paying them that amount in currency you are offering that amount. They then can accept or refuse your offer. Legally its something like bartering,
the legal term for this is "invitation to treat".
[B]
Legal tender is only involved when there is a debt. You have already eaten a meal, you are paying for a service already provided etc,etc that's where legal tender comes into it, currency is what you are talking about.[/B]

[/QUOTE]

Surely by you're own definition legal tender would be in effect? You've already been up the road so you owe a debt of the toll amount for use of the road.


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