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  #21  
Old 15th November 2017, 12:42 PM
Jlyis Jlyis is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Spiralling backwards to go forwards- '18 CB4 Concept

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  #22  
Old 15th November 2017, 12:47 PM
Duke RR Duke RR is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

yes, honda won gp titles etc, but that wont make me be buy a bike from any manufacturer, regardless of wins / losses ( unless its MV in WBSK, get the boat ) Pani 1199 was a pig in racing, but still a great bike to ride, but of a handful and skittish, but fun nonetheless. Same as the Yam MT07, not all big guns on paper, but what a cracker of a bike, and its small cc too.


i agree with what Johnnyb said yesterday. Honda have not given us anything exciting / really good since 2007. The vfr1200f is a good bike, but the hype around it before the launch etc said it was a gamechanger, groundbreaking, but we all know how that went down the withe press at the time.

The 'blade will always be a good / great road bike, will do it all well , easy to ride, comfy, reliable.....but they have never moved the game on. In 2004, despite what ppl think, there was innovation, new tech, which make that model a particularly good bike. And the Tadao Baba 954 before it. Im not talking all 200+ bhp, but ppl want excitement, even just a little. Honda keep saying theyre tweaking and improving, but all they are doing is using different make-up on the same bike, or am i missing something (?). I read this guys interview ( ATwin project leader or whatever he is ) above yesterday and i couldnt help but laugh, he is off his chomp. - hence my thread. And imo, the naked fireblae they shpwed at the EICMA, looks rushed and european, it aint no true jap design.


Yes, the DCT models are a great idea, but they have never really capitalised on it. On top of that, the design of their bikes has been pretty lackluster. Visually, this triangular buzz they've been on for yrs needs to stop. The crossrunner should be a great 800 cc allrounder, but the first model looks a bit, well weapy and sad., Its a cracker bike to ride however, but its heavy, same with the other bikes of the range. And the NC's, they need to shave weight. But this is all down to materials, price pinching. They are not alone, but particularly good at it.


look at yamaha, new r1, new MT range, xsr's etc. These are all new bikes. And getting improvements. The CP engines re-launched yamaha completely. And the sales reflect this. With the long awaited Tenere 700, this will go further again.

Kawasaki, ive never bothered with being honest, yeah few new bikes, but they are pressing forward with the supercharge era. The H2 SX sports tourer, that will be a cracker of a bike to own imo. Its the first kawasaki to appeal to me. And as the guy in kawasaki said, they have a lot of new bikes in the pipeline with exciting engines etc, so you can only think what they will be will be bringing forward. WHo else would have thought of it, supercharged sports tourer....if you really think about it, its very very clever.

Suzuki, in the same boat as Honda, nothing new really. The vstrom was a missed opportunity, both 650 & 1000cc. About just ok, apart from the display ( shocking plastic shroud and feel etc ) and suspension is a little wooden. The GSXR1000 didnt get the hype as im sure theyd of liked, but sales around seem good and again, another proved road bike.


yeah......its all a bit underwhelming and getting more expensive to buy new, and hard to see the value in any bike imo - which i think.



like i said before, the Ducati v4, wil have to wait and see, but the bike of the year for 2018 has to be the H2 SX.


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  #23  
Old 15th November 2017, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Jlyis
Spiralling backwards to go forwards- '18 CB4 Concept
Nice looking machine !

Great as a chicks bike cos it's small and groovy without any real hipster connotations, but probably needs a 650/twin for any kind of go, and she needs to be fit, as in isolation some bikes look terrific - but then the moment is spoiled once you see what kind of ludar owns it.

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  #24  
Old 15th November 2017, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Fact is IC engines have peaked and they're just arseing about now.
My spies tell me there's gonna be a sea change over the next few years.
And it looks like the guys who are "doing nothing" are at the forefront.
Watch this space.(it's not electric btw,the same folks who are pushing evs are the same who were pushing diesel 10 years ago)
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  #25  
Old 15th November 2017, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Kavo
Ducati are backed by the Audi group at the moment so they've plenty of money to spend sure they've already thrown 25 million euros at Lorenzo for a 2 year deal alone
VW/Audi are on the verge of going bust.The whole emissions thing has hit them hard and only for germun govt intervention they would be gone under.
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  #26  
Old 15th November 2017, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Vjmc.Cork
VW/Audi are on the verge of going bust.The whole emissions thing has hit them hard and only for germun govt intervention they would be gone under.
Does this mean they're going back to making real Dukes, i.e. metal that corrodes at the mere mention of a bad weather forecast?....
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  #27  
Old 15th November 2017, 08:20 PM
fabiostar fabiostar is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

the market as a whole demands more boring middle of the road models these day... just go out and look at the average age of riders these days......

fecking jumbo BMW desert things everywere you look ridden by (mostly) middle aged grey haired men.. even the 600 supersports bikes are a thing of the past,or will be shortly..
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  #28  
Old 15th November 2017, 08:24 PM
Caffeine Caffeine is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Vjmc.Cork
Fact is IC engines have peaked and they're just arseing about now.
My spies tell me there's gonna be a sea change over the next few years.
And it looks like the guys who are "doing nothing" are at the forefront.
Watch this space.(it's not electric btw,the same folks who are pushing evs are the same who were pushing diesel 10 years ago)
My uninformed money has been on hydrogen for a while. I don't know about IC engines peaking but I've always been of the opinion that the emmissions requirements process were set to kill them over a long enough time and electric batteries are just ridiculous on a large enough scale.
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  #29  
Old 16th November 2017, 12:56 PM
Jlyis Jlyis is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Admin
Nice looking machine !

Great as a chicks bike cos it's small and groovy without any real hipster connotations, but probably needs a 650/twin for any kind of go, and she needs to be fit, as in isolation some bikes look terrific - but then the moment is spoiled once you see what kind of ludar owns it.

Click the image to open in full size.
Distinguished Gentleman's Ride Calendar 2018 - local lad find his ride for the day.
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  #30  
Old 16th November 2017, 07:59 PM
duck67 duck67 is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Rode a Panigale and an S1000rr in Spain for couple weeks..Great bikes but prefer my blade any day...
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  #31  
Old 16th November 2017, 09:01 PM
Caffeine Caffeine is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Jlyis
Distinguished Gentleman's Ride Calendar 2018 - local lad find his ride for the day.
And proceeds to quickly improve on honda's concept.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2018-honda-CB4_Concept.jpg (160.1 KB)
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  #32  
Old 16th November 2017, 09:04 PM
Holy Moly Holy Moly is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Vjmc.Cork
VW/Audi are on the verge of going bust.The whole emissions thing has hit them hard and only for germun govt intervention they would be gone under.
That's news to me.
2014 Profit = €14b
2015 Loss = €4b
2016 Profit = €7b
They'd a bit of tax to pay on that.
The headline cost to them looked huge, but I don't think there was ever a doubt they could easily afford it !

As for a hydrogen cell between me legs - fuk that ! Hope Honda don't go down that road, but I wouldn't be surprised of a phev hybrid yoke coming out from them.
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  #33  
Old 16th November 2017, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Holy Moly
That's news to me.
2014 Profit = €14b
2015 Loss = €4b
2016 Profit = €7b
They'd a bit of tax to pay on that.
The headline cost to them looked huge, but I don't think there was ever a doubt they could easily afford it !

As for a hydrogen cell between me legs - fuk that ! Hope Honda don't go down that road, but I wouldn't be surprised of a phev hybrid yoke coming out from them.
I think they lost 25 Billion over that emissions scandal, and were in no small way instrumental in deaths of 18,000 pairs of Adelie penguins in Antarctica last month.

" Carbon Monoxide is cat up here lads, will we cybercide or what ? "
Click the image to open in full size.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/13/wo...die/index.html

Nice one Volkswagen / Ducati
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  #34  
Old 17th November 2017, 01:16 AM
Holy Moly Holy Moly is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Admin
I think they lost 25 Billion over that emissions scandal, and were in no small way instrumental in deaths of 18,000 pairs of Adelie penguins in Antarctica last month.

" Carbon Monoxide is cat up here lads, will we cybercide or what ? "
Click the image to open in full size.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/13/wo...die/index.html

Nice one Volkswagen / Ducati
Oh they lost a bunch of money alright, but in no way were they bailed out or in any need of government assistance. Like all the big companies of questionable morals, the costs to them for fucking the planet up is small fry.
Bloody Ducati....
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  #35  
Old 17th November 2017, 09:35 AM
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Vjmc.Cork Vjmc.Cork is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Holy Moly
Oh they lost a bunch of money alright, but in no way were they bailed out or in any need of government assistance. Like all the big companies of questionable morals, the costs to them for fucking the planet up is small fry.
Bloody Ducati....
While they may not have recieved finiancal aid they were bailed out.
The cost of recalling all the vehicles affected would have crippled vw
so they did nothing.And the germun govt/eu let them off the hook.
Too big to fail I think is the term used.The yanks aren't letting them off
so easy though.One good thing to come out of this is that people are
starting to cop on to the rubbish vw are putting out and their sales are
dropping fast.If it wasn't for pcp their sales would have collapsed.
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  #36  
Old 17th November 2017, 11:18 AM
hyperhyper hyperhyper is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Something amazingly boring about Hondas. They're the Toyota of the bike world - reliable but boring. I want a bike to commute on, grand, I'll buy a deuville. But if I want something to go out on spins and a few weekends away I want something with a bit of wow factor and Honda don't have the wow factor for me.
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  #37  
Old 17th November 2017, 11:32 AM
Duke RR Duke RR is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

the problem for me is not that they are boring - they are seemless, they always fall short of great bikes. They are well capable of staying up with the rest of them, but dont. The designs since 08 have not been great in fairness. Look at the bikes since then. all triangles and jelly mould and adding weight !

like i said, the crossrunner first edition ( despite its looks ), was a great bike, good fun planted handling, but the looks and weight......why or why.


they were using a design team based in italy and this is the problem, and they need to shave a few kgs of their bikes too.
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  #38  
Old 17th November 2017, 12:17 PM
padraic2271 padraic2271 is online now
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Vjmc.Cork
While they may not have recieved finiancal aid they were bailed out.
The cost of recalling all the vehicles affected would have crippled vw
so they did nothing.And the germun govt/eu let them off the hook.
Too big to fail I think is the term used.The yanks aren't letting them off
so easy though.One good thing to come out of this is that people are
starting to cop on to the rubbish vw are putting out and their sales are
dropping fast.If it wasn't for pcp their sales would have collapsed.
VW are officially the best selling cage company in the world, don't think their sales are dropping
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  #39  
Old 17th November 2017, 12:40 PM
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Vjmc.Cork Vjmc.Cork is offline
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by padraic2271
VW are officially the best selling cage company in the world, don't think their sales are dropping
In the world?you sure about that?
They pump up their figures by pre-registering vehicles so it looks like they're doing well.
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  #40  
Old 17th November 2017, 01:15 PM
padraic2271 padraic2271 is online now
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Default Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral

Originally Posted by Vjmc.Cork
In the world?you sure about that?
They pump up their figures by pre-registering vehicles so it looks like they're doing well.
Yeah, it was announced earlier in the year, surprised me too, but includes VW group (Audi, seat, skoda) especially after the scandal.
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