Old 7th January 2020, 08:06 PM #31
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

Originally Posted by I polished one off to a dude
Fuelling at lower revs/throttle % is good, but once you go past 6-7%, it's all over the place, needs a lot of work. I suspect that's where it switches over from MAP to %throttle fuel maps.
No probs starting or idling at all.
You should get a Rapidbike Evo tuning module with bluetooth ( called a 'bluebike' dongle ) for android / laptop to fook around with that, but - even without a dyno run while riding ordinary roads it still reads the signals from either your 'standard' OEM lambda sensors or new wideband O2 sensors in the exhaust to apply a constantly correcting auto-adaptive fuelling mixture by itself to give optimal power and fuelling.

https://www.dimsport.it/en/rapid-bike/rapid-bike-evo/
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Old 7th January 2020, 09:35 PM #32
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

Originally Posted by Admin
You should get a Rapidbike Evo tuning module with bluetooth ( called a 'bluebike' dongle ) for android / laptop to fook around with that, but - even without a dyno run while riding ordinary roads it still reads the signals from either your 'standard' OEM lambda sensors or new wideband O2 sensors in the exhaust to apply a constantly correcting auto-adaptive fuelling mixture by itself to give optimal power and fuelling.

https://www.dimsport.it/en/rapid-bike/rapid-bike-evo/
Thanks but i have a power commander 5 with ignition and autotune modules, with a raft of gauges and logger. It works fairly good at correcting the AFR by itself. Obviously you have to make the starter map yourself, the autotune only works when the bike is actually running.
In anyways it takes time to dial it in, there's no magical instant fix, even an good dyno dude will take an hour or 2.

[IMG][/IMG]

Some gauges are offline there as they're not required for this build.

Last edited by I polished one off to a dude; 7th January 2020 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 7th January 2020, 11:21 PM #33
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

Impressive stuff there, fairplay
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Old 9th January 2020, 09:54 PM #34
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

After a couple of spins, gently taking it around, this is what the autotune is suggesting - a lot moar fuels


Last edited by I polished one off to a dude; 9th January 2020 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 9th January 2020, 10:30 PM #35
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

What are the numbers in the cells representing? MPG?
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Old 9th January 2020, 11:39 PM #36
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

Starting to trim back after 3 grand though....you only running partial throttle still I assume?
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Old 9th January 2020, 11:50 PM #37
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

These power commander yokes work by intercepting the signal from the ECU to the injector, altering it to make on the fly fueling adjustments.
They can also do ignition timing in a similar way.

The "Fuel" table in the map is where the + and - values are, that are the changes the Power Commander makes to the signal, in order to alter the fueling.

For autotune, there is a table of Target Air Fuel Ratio values, depending on throttle % and rpm.

The autotune is reading what the actual air fuel ratio is, via an oxygen sensor in the exhaust.

It then recommends adjustments in order to bring the AF ratio closer to the target value in the Target AFR table.
These are called trims.
And those are what those numbers are that you speak of.

A +20 there means autotune is recommending a 20 (% iirc) increase in fuel quantity being injected at that throttle % and rpm.

It is actually using that recommendation as you ride, but the max % adjustment is can make at a time is set by you.
I set +/- 20% max.

You can accept these trims if you agree with them, and they are then committed to that Fuel table "permanently'.

Then the trim table goes back to 0 so the trims system starts again.

As time goes by, on an engine with altered aspiration, the autotune will recommend smaller and smaller trims after each iteration of you accepting the trims, as it gets closer and closer to the target AFRs.
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Old 9th January 2020, 11:56 PM #38
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

Originally Posted by DavyH View Post
Starting to trim back after 3 grand though....you only running partial throttle still I assume?
Ah I'd say that one single -1 is an outlier, but yeah I've only been going as far as 10% throttle and 3000rpm so far, just so i can make the map adjustments to keep it in spec, so I can gradually work my way up the revs and %throttle.
Making adjustments after each block of 20-30 miles.
Eventually have the whole table built.

Could just go to deano the dyno dude and have it done quick but I don't learn much that way.
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Old 10th January 2020, 12:09 AM #39
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

ok, I get the idea.

Well considering the increase in CC those numbers are not bad considering that you have increased the total capacity of the engine by close to 10%.
Then with the extra gear the power band is going to be in a different place so obviously you are going to need slightly more fuel than previously at different revs.

Id say after a few runs you would have it fairly well sorted. Looks like the increased capacity and gear change is not really going to have a dramatic impact on your fuel consumption so it looks like bonuses all round.

Delighted for you, looks like it might turn out better than you expected.
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Old 10th January 2020, 01:20 PM #40
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

Originally Posted by I polished one off to a dude View Post
Ah I'd say that one single -1 is an outlier, but yeah I've only been going as far as 10% throttle and 3000rpm so far, just so i can make the map adjustments to keep it in spec, so I can gradually work my way up the revs and %throttle.
Making adjustments after each block of 20-30 miles.
Eventually have the whole table built.

Could just go to deano the dyno dude and have it done quick but I don't learn much that way.
Ah no,itís good to get a grasp of these things and as long as youíre not going WOT and shutting off quickly youíll do no harm with it. So is that actually correcting the mapping as you go or is it giving you a perceived map that you should go with ? Iíve no experience with the auto tune at all
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Old 10th January 2020, 06:14 PM #41
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Re: 2.5L Rocket III Stroker

Originally Posted by efanton View Post
ok, I get the idea.

Well considering the increase in CC those numbers are not bad considering that you have increased the total capacity of the engine by close to 10%.
Then with the extra gear the power band is going to be in a different place so obviously you are going to need slightly more fuel than previously at different revs.

Id say after a few runs you would have it fairly well sorted. Looks like the increased capacity and gear change is not really going to have a dramatic impact on your fuel consumption so it looks like bonuses all round.

Delighted for you, looks like it might turn out better than you expected.
Oh yeah the 6th gear thing didn't happen, too expensive to get made unless you have like 12-20 orders, due to minimum order values.

I was surprised initially by the additional fuel being looked for, i thought it would want 8% moar fuels based on it going from 2294cc to 2472cc (7.75% increase), but that's assuming my PCV AFR table is the same as the stock Triumph map and they didn't make it lean to pass noise and emissions.

But then you realise the stock map is a bit lean, so this probably explains the 20% increase being looked for.. now that 20 is the max it can look for per iteration, so now that I've acceped the trims and it goes back to 0, after the next run there could be another 20% being looked for...
but probably less. could be 5 - 10% next time round.

Re fuel economy, even though the displacement is bigger i.e. consumes moar fuels, it was done by stroke increase so this should increase the torque nicely and also bring it lower down in the RPM, which is good for economy.


Originally Posted by DavyH View Post
Ah no,itís good to get a grasp of these things and as long as youíre not going WOT and shutting off quickly youíll do no harm with it. So is that actually correcting the mapping as you go or is it giving you a perceived map that you should go with ? Iíve no experience with the auto tune at all
Yes it is apparently doing it on the go, to a max of 20% (before i accept the trim) towards whatever % deficit there is.
It's comparing the 'actual' AFR to what the target is (in the AFR table), and trimming (trimming off or trimming/adding on) towards that.

I'll post the next trim table so we can see what happens next.
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