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  #61  
Old 11th January 2018, 02:47 PM
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Default Re: Helmet safety Ratings

Originally Posted by efanton
if one helmet is getting more destroyed in a test than another it does not necessarily follow that the first helmet is not as good. In fact its quite likely the opposite as the energy used to destroy the helmet is energy that cant be used to destroy your head.
Only if you come to an abrupt stop, but pretty much all motorcycle accidents however involve being thrown around like a rag-doll, and where a helmet (as you describe) absorbed enough energy to totally destroy the lid or damage / split itself in that particular area - it's your skull doing the absorption 2 milliseconds later if and when it lands on the same spot again.

Helmet crushing and testing should never be considered similar to the 5-star rated NCAP Testing, where the car pretty much writes itself off to absorb all the energy of one single collision.

Originally Posted by Frisco
This is the thing, no that would not give a better measure on how well a helmet would protect your head in an off.
A full race carbon lid that will withstand a 180mph crash may transfer more energy to your head in a 30mph crash than a lower spec plastic helmet.
Ultimate strength is not what you want for day to day use because the stronger it is the less it will absorb at lower speeds and what it doesn't absorb your head does.
There aren't many who would survive a 180mph crash, if it was into the back of a lorry or an oak tree for instance you'd be powerhosing the riders brains and shattered remnants of a helmet off it, but on a race-track, like during a Marque Marquez style high-side / tucking the front while hard on the brakes ( and with no trees or static objects in your way just the tarmac and kitty litter) you're only ever actually falling, mainly with gravity, towards the ground at a relatively slow rate of impact and certainly not 180mph, and where abrasion resistance of the helmet and for example the Sharp oblique impact tests at that low speed are probably more relevant and important than the actual bang itself.

Originally Posted by efanton

And this is entirely the point I was trying to make. The Sharp tests are totally ambiguous and meaningless.
In your opinion It's a much better system of evaluation than DOT, which approves the use of harley davidson piss-pot lids on motorcycles.
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  #62  
Old 23rd January 2018, 09:53 PM
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Default lids and the SHARP rating

I picked up a lovely light, better vision, pin locked British company Nitro Lid for 50euro delivered.


Before I bought her I checked the rating on her and she has 4/5 stars same as my Shark s700 and 600air

so whats the deal, the shark lids cost around 160-200 and the Nitro was on sale but the rrp was 69 sterling
Latest ECE 22.05 standard compliant.
ACU gold standard approved.
4/5 stars on SHARP

some of the really expensive lids have like 3/5 stars so how is this possible like , how come a 50 euro lid be the same safety as a 600 lid, I don't get it

I am not saying that the Nitro is better or equal to a Aria or summit 600 lid but surely there is more to the rating and testing if ya get me

like the AGV K Series , which I thought were a very good lid are 135euro and have only 3/5 stars????

if the sharp testing is the b all and end all of testing lid safety , how can you defend a lid that costs 2-6 times more , I know that they are better but why



Last edited by acdc; 23rd January 2018 at 09:58 PM.
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  #63  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

like this Aria Condor nearly 300euro and only 2 stars
another Aria RS7 Corsair , these decent lids only 3 stars 300euro

aria viper , 350 sterling, 400euro 3 stars
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  #64  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:07 PM
dePeatrick dePeatrick is offline
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Lack of innovation and development on established makes of lids, they need a kick up the ass and sharp rating is giving it to them. Also the pin lock visors are a complete rip off for a small bit of plexiglass and silicon. Good luck with the helmet, I'd go for one but got a flip up last time and absolutely love it.
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  #65  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by dePeatrick
Lack of innovation and development on established makes of lids, they need a kick up the ass and sharp rating is giving it to them. Also the pin lock visors are a complete rip off for a small bit of plexiglass and silicon. Good luck with the helmet, I'd go for one but got a flip up last time and absolutely love it.
had a flip up, carberg justimo or summit, deadly handy lid but noisy and heavy, I will always go for a pinlock and yep 25 -55 quid for a bit of plastic is a rip off but they do the job
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  #66  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:26 PM
dePeatrick dePeatrick is offline
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by acdc
had a flip up, carberg justimo or summit, deadly handy lid but noisy and heavy, I will always go for a pinlock and yep 25 -55 quid for a bit of plastic is a rip off but they do the job
Yeah you're right, they are heavy and noisy, but at this stage I'm blind deaf tough old cunt so no matter I used to be loyal to brands, both in work and hobbies but with the Chinese taking over manufacturing I am no longer brand loyal...it all comes from the same place and just as likely to get a fumed up expensive brand as a decent cheapish one...
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  #67  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Fukked up...and fukk predictatext too
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  #68  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by dePeatrick
Yeah you're right, they are heavy and noisy, but at this stage I'm blind deaf tough old cunt so no matter I used to be loyal to brands, both in work and hobbies but with the Chinese taking over manufacturing I am no longer brand loyal...it all comes from the same place and just as likely to get a fumed up expensive brand as a decent cheapish one...
are they made in china
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  #69  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:41 PM
dePeatrick dePeatrick is offline
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by acdc
are they made in china
No idea where they are made, I presume China...
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  #70  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:48 PM
dePeatrick dePeatrick is offline
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Took a look, yeah Chinese but now in Spain and the US...no slouches these Chinese manufacturers.
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  #71  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Sharp rating is NOT the be all and end all of rating a helmet. In fact its a VERY LIMITED test of a helmet. Building a helmet that can get a high Sharp rating is relative easy which is why cheap helmets tend to do better than you would expect.

What cheap helmets are not necessarily good at are, comfort, visors, noise, weight, aerodynamics and build quality.

Sharp rating tests are very limited indeed. The maximum speed of impact they test for is about 18 mph. Thats not a real world test and all that can be said for Sharp ratings is that one star or less are junk that should never have been submitted for testing in the first place. Also bear in mind that that wonderful 4/5 star helmet you are wearing passed the test because it DID NOT ABSORB THE IMPACT ENERGY and its your head that will probably end up doing that. In fact a helmet that cracked or was crushed slightly is probably a better helmet because the energy used to damage the helmet is no longer energy that can be used to wreck your head or brain


With regards to pinlocks being a a waste of money and just a bit of plexi glass, there's a lot more to them than just cutting a shape out of a lump of cheap plastic.
Walk in to an opticians and suggest to them that thin optically correct plastic lenses should be cheaper than plain glass lenses and they will laugh at you. If you wear glasses you will already know that plastic lenses are more than double the cost and there's good reasons for that.
Does this mean all pinlocks are good, not at all, but a quality pinlock requires high quality materials that have been engineered to optical quality and that's not as simple as molding a piece of plastic or cutting a shape out of a sheet

Last edited by efanton; 23rd January 2018 at 10:55 PM.
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  #72  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

It's probably down to personal preference, but I don't mind spending a few quid when I'm going to be wearing something every day for 3-5 years. Fair point about them being up to good standards though.
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  #73  
Old 23rd January 2018, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

/threads merged

Sharp rating is the best there is until somebody (impartial who isn't a helmet manufacturer) comes up with a better way of testing helmets to destruction.

There are plenty of bikers that swore by expensive helmets who are now pushing up daisies and makes you would wonder if their follow the herd/logo/marketing lids 'didnt' have a shit rating on sharp, whether they'd still be alive or not.

Other ratings are rubbish, this is a harley davidson helmet that passed 'DOT' approval for example ;

Click the image to open in full size.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/stor...rid-1-2-helmet
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  #74  
Old 23rd January 2018, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

my apologies for the double thread, I did not see this one till now, but still relevant as my decision to purchase the 50euro Nitro pinlock was down to the sharp rating first in the decision

what is the dot approval, an american sharp type of thing, sure in most states aint the wearing of a lid down to the rider not law

dept of transportation ??? cant be

Last edited by acdc; 23rd January 2018 at 11:30 PM.
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  #75  
Old 23rd January 2018, 11:32 PM
efanton efanton is offline
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by Admin
/threads merged

Sharp rating is the best there is until somebody (impartial who isn't a helmet manufacturer) comes up with a better way of testing helmets to destruction.

There are plenty of bikers that swore by expensive lids who are now pushing up daisies and makes you would wonder if their helments 'didnt' have a shit rating on sharp, whether they'd still be alive or not.

Other rating systems are rubbish, this is a harley davidson helmet that passed 'DOT' approval for example ;
Not suggesting that Sharp testing is no good at all, but it is a limited test, and certainly not a real world test. I agree its better than other tests out there.

But like I said a Sharp rating is NOT the be all and end all of rating a helmet. There are many other factors to consider, and many cheap helmets skimp on these

There are plenty of bikers that swore by expensive lids who are now pushing up daisies and makes you would wonder if their helments 'didnt' have a shit rating on sharp, whether they'd still be alive or not
.

Sadly this is true, but for most of them I doubt a cheap €100 4/5 star helmet would have made any difference. There is not a helmet in existence that prevents, or would come close to preventing, all head injuries. The energy and forces involved in a high speed collision are huge.
What sharp do not say, nor do they give any indication of, are what does 3 stars actually mean in a real world sense. If I was killed in collision wearing a 3 star helmet how improved are my survival chances if I had worn 5 star helmet, for instance. I am supposing the difference in most scenarios would not make much of a difference.
Also many of those unfortunate bikers that wore expensive lids did not die from head injuries, so using them as an argument really doesnt work

Last edited by efanton; 23rd January 2018 at 11:33 PM.
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  #76  
Old 23rd January 2018, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by efanton


With regards to pinlocks being a a waste of money and just a bit of plexi glass, there's a lot more to them than just cutting a shape out of a lump of cheap plastic.
Walk in to an opticians and suggest to them that thin optically correct plastic lenses should be cheaper than plain glass lenses and they will laugh at you. If you wear glasses you will already know that plastic lenses are more than double the cost and there's good reasons for that.
Does this mean all pinlocks are good, not at all, but a quality pinlock requires high quality materials that have been engineered to optical quality and that's not as simple as molding a piece of plastic or cutting a shape out of a sheet

I got my first pinlock 8 years ago, before that I never even heard of them and them foggies I think they were called were sujjested as a way of demisting , I got the pinlock for a shark and I was well impressed and even though I thought the price of it was very expencive for what I got , it was worth every penny
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  #77  
Old 23rd January 2018, 11:35 PM
acdc acdc is offline
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by efanton
Not suggesting that Sharp testing is no good at all, but it is a limited test, and certainly not a real world test. I agree its better than other tests out there.

But like I said a Sharp rating is NOT the be all and end all of rating a helmet. There are many other factors to consider, and many cheap helmets skimp on these

.

Sadly this is true, but for most of them I doubt a cheap €100 4/5 star helmet would have made any difference. There is not a helmet in existence that prevents, or would come close to preventing, all head injuries. The energy and forces involved in a high speed collision are huge.
What sharp do not say, nor do they give any indication of, are what does 3 stars actually mean in a real world sense. If I was killed in collision wearing a 3 star helmet how improved are my survival chances if I had worn 5 star helmet, for instance. I am supposing the difference in most scenarios would not make much of a difference.
Also many of those unfortunate bikers that wore expensive lids did not die from head injuries, so using them as an argument really doesnt wor
k
that is a very good point , what is the diff between a 3 and a 4 , is it 1 mile per hour or an extra pound of pressure

who are sharp, i canlook that up lol but are they connected to a lid manufacture or country
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  #78  
Old 23rd January 2018, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by acdc
....British company.... Nitro Lid for 50euro delivered.....
British Company, Chinese lid. Some of them offer good performance for
a remarkably low price.

A couple of the cheap MT lids have a 5 star SHARP
rating and also come with Pinlock included.

Before I bought her I checked the rating on her and she has 4/5 stars same as my Shark s700 and 600air
Three polycarbonate helmets of very similar design all offer the
same level of impact protection. This shouldn't come as a surprise.

so whats the deal, the shark lids cost around 160-200
There is little or no correlation between helmet price and impact protection.

some of the really expensive lids have like 3/5 stars so how is this possible...
There is little or no correlation between helmet price and impact protection.

how come a 50 euro lid be the same safety as a 600 lid,
Because: there is little or no correlation between helmet price and impact protection.


I am not saying that the Nitro is better or equal to a Aria or summit 600 lid but surely there is more to the rating and testing if ya get me
I don't get you. Are you suggesting the tests are rigged?

like the AGV K Series , which I thought were a very good lid are 135euro and have only 3/5 stars????
That could be because:....................... There is little or no correlation between helmet price and impact protection.

The helmets tested by SHARP are all approved to ECE regulation 22 and
offered for sale in the UK. Some of the Chinese-made AGV helmets achieved
a perfectly reasonable 3 star rating. Note that most of the more expensive, Italian made AGVs score the maximum 5 stars. You shouldn't draw too many conclusions from
this, because: there is little or no correlation between helmet price and impact protection.

if the sharp testing is the b all and end all of testing lid safety
They don't claim to be.

how can you defend a lid that costs 2-6 times more , I know that they are better but why
Although all helmets must meet the same approval standards, there are
some that perform better than others. SHARP offers a detailed assessment
for each helmet. IMO, this is a lot more useful than a simple "pass" sticker
as found on ACU or Snell (USA) approved helmets.

Last edited by Confusion; 23rd January 2018 at 11:47 PM.
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  #79  
Old 24th January 2018, 12:14 AM
acdc acdc is offline
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Default Re: Helmet safety Ratings

have a look at this fake motorcycle lids
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  #80  
Old 24th January 2018, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: lids and the SHARP rating

Originally Posted by efanton
Sharp rating tests are very limited indeed. The maximum speed of impact they test for is about 18 mph.
See post #60 above.

Also bear in mind that that wonderful 4/5 star helmet you are wearing passed the test because it DID NOT ABSORB THE IMPACT ENERGY and its your head that will probably end up doing that.
Helmet impact tests are measured by an accelerometer placed within
the test headform. Low acceleration = good impact absorption/distribution = good test result.

In fact a helmet that cracked or was crushed slightly is probably a better helmet because the energy used to damage the helmet is no longer energy that can be used to wreck your head or brain
I agree. A helmet shell with a bit of 'give' is potentially safer than a more
rigid structure. This may explain why so many polycarbonate helmets score
better than harder (and more expensive) helmets with carbon fibre or
other composites. That said, all helmets have to be vey rigid in order to meet
the very stringent ECE R22-05 rigidity tests (section 7.5).
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