MotoGP Launches Electric Racing Championship

[spray____]

Coming for 2019

http://www.motorcycle.com/mini-featu...mpionship.html

[motoxyogi]

Single make series with no incentive to improve the breed? Yawn.

[Pattefolle]

This is the beginning of the end of the internal combustion engine in motor racing.
Nice looking moto though!!

[Rockster]

I wonder will they include fanboost along with their 4 wheeled counterparts. Idea behind it is, the fans vote for their favourite driver and the one with the most votes gets a 5 second burst of power, just to spice things up of course.
Total load of bolloxology of course and a vain attempt to jazz what is a very dull spectacle...

[robbiec]

Its the future. Cages are too heavy, it will work with bikes, too much torque is the problem with electric bikes so power is softened initially, no gearbox, clutch, exhaust or liquids in the bike is a huge advance , from a fans point of view no sound is a bit boring.

[RubaDub]

Originally Posted by Rockster

I wonder will they include fanboost along with their 4 wheeled counterparts. Idea behind it is, the fans vote for their favourite driver and the one with the most votes gets a 5 second burst of power, just to spice things up of course.
Total load of bolloxology of course and a vain attempt to jazz what is a very dull spectacle...

I hate all that fan shite - it turns racing into the x-factor.

Let them race!

[Duke RR]

all this elec talk is bollox, i know its coming, but i will ignore it as much as i can to the end. and how ppl find it appealing is beyond me.

as said above, fookin x-factor racing with all the balls and shit to go wqith ti.

get the boat.

them and them green party should be turfed into the bottom of the sea.

[Dub Duke]

The distance capabilities of current battery cages is exactly the same as the electric cages of >100 years ago. The same.

Hydrogen fuel cell driving an electric motor. That's the future.

[Duke RR]

Originally Posted by Dub Duke

Hydrogen fuel cell driving an electric motor. That's the future.

a lot of manufacturers plan to introduce superchargers like kawasaki have on the moderately priced H2 SX tourer.

honda and suzuki both set to give us mid capacity supercharged bikes(s) in 2019, with combustion engines, thank fook.

[Spoonman]

Originally Posted by motoxyogi

Single make series with no incentive to improve the breed? Yawn.

You realise you're describing a riders championship right? ...yawn?!?

Originally Posted by robbiec

from a fans point of view no sound is a bit boring.

you'd think that but if you'd every attended a Formula-e event you might change your mind - there's a whole lot of other stuff going on there that takes the place of the 'road of the dinosaur'. You don't miss it nearly as much as you'd think!

Originally Posted by Duke RR

all this elec talk is bollox, i know its coming, but i will ignore it as much as i can to the end. and how ppl find it appealing is beyond me.

You need to ride/drive something electric dude - shits all over anything else you could possibly compare it to. That being said, suit yourself.

Originally Posted by Dub Duke

The distance capabilities of current battery cages is exactly the same as the electric cages of >100 years ago.

Utter bullshit. Thoroughly, laughably, bullshit.

Originally Posted by Dub Duke

Hydrogen fuel cell driving an electric motor. That's the future.

You're absolutely correct.... as soon as they get past issues like cost, life span, conversion inefficiency, heat waste, absence of infrastructure, inefficiency of H2 production, substantial precious metal requirements.... oh - and demand response, mustn't forget that one.

In all seriousness, they definitely have a future in CHP applications, and heavy frieght; we may even see a fuel cell based range extender for EV's. But you're NEVER going to see them used in the absence of a battery where high performance is required so hybrid battery-FC systems are the very closest thing you're going to find in the private transport role.

Batteries have their problems but they're nothing compared to those facing HFC's.

[Dub Duke]

Originally Posted by Spoonman

You realise you're describing a riders championship right? ...yawn?!?



you'd think that but if you'd every attended a Formula-e event you might change your mind - there's a whole lot of other stuff going on there that takes the place of the 'road of the dinosaur'. You don't miss it nearly as much as you'd think!



You need to ride/drive something electric dude - shits all over anything else you could possibly compare it to. That being said, suit yourself.



Utter bullshit. Thoroughly, laughably, bullshit.



You're absolutely correct.... as soon as they get past issues like cost, life span, conversion inefficiency, heat waste, absence of infrastructure, inefficiency of H2 production, substantial precious metal requirements.... oh - and demand response, mustn't forget that one.

In all seriousness, they definitely have a future in CHP applications, and heavy frieght; we may even see a fuel cell based range extender for EV's. But you're NEVER going to see them used in the absence of a battery where high performance is required so hybrid battery-FC systems are the very closest thing you're going to find in the private transport role.

Batteries have their problems but they're nothing compared to those facing HFC's.

No need to be rude. From 2010:

If today’s supporters of EV’s would dig into the specifications and the sales brochures of early 20th century electric “horseless carriages”, their enthusiasm would quickly disappear. Fast-charged batteries (to 80% capacity in 10 minutes), automated battery swapping stations, public charging poles, load balancing, the entire business plan of Better Place, in-wheel motors, regenerative braking: it was all there in the late 1800s or the early 1900s. It did not help. Most surprisingly, however, is the seemingly non-existent progress of battery technology.

The 100 mile fritchl electric posterThe Nissan Leaf and the Mitsubishi i-MiEV, two electric cages to be introduced on the market in 2010, have exactly the same range as the 1908 Fritchle Model A Victoria: 100 miles (160 kilometres) on a single charge. The “100-mile Fritchle” was a progressive engineering feat for its time, but it was not the only early electric that boasted a 100 mile range. I have only chosen it because its specifications are most complete, and because its range was certified.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/20...es-same-range/

[Spoonman]

Originally Posted by Dub Duke

From 2010:

So your assertions are based on an article which is almost a decade old?

A decade in which we've seen drastic improvements wrt battery charge acceptace rates, thermal stability and life cycle degredation; and where, whilst to date the energy density gains have been modest (at about 50% up on what we had in 2010), the cost is *WAY* down and there is significant progress being made into electrode architectures based on the profound increase in our understanding of the processes surrounding electrically reversible reactions.

We're advancing, at pace, on a whole raft of fronts, any one of which could produce efficacy gains the likes of which the combustion engine couldn't even imagine.

Now don't get me wrong, progress is being made on HFC's as well, and China are throwing huge effort into improving the power density, response characteristics, and precious metal content; and with some success it must be noted - but what you don't see spoken about so much are the efficiency (and not even the 'well2wheel' efficiency, I'm talking tank to wheel), and service life figures. Either of which, on their own, would negate any competitiveness against current battery solutions.

The simple truth about HFC's is that they're a bloody expensive way to convert energy, but one which works incredibly well where you've got a space constrained power demand in an inhostpitable environment - ie: in Space and under water - because you can breath one of the fuel components, you can drink the byproduct, and the waste heat generated during recombination can be used for environmental conditioning and hot water demand.

Outside of that, they're relatively big, very expensive in themselves, expensive to make fuel for (and environmentally questionably where natural gas is employed as the hydrogen feedstock), require significant energy to store that fuel, and at the end of all that - they have a relatively limited service life.

I can definitely see them finding application in shipping and stationary CHP in areas with high solar insolation, and I can see them as a component in a hybrid powertrain for locomotives, large trucks, and maybe large agri-machinery - but in a world where the first 1000km capable electric truck is (even pessimistically) 5 years away, I simply do not see the demand being there to warrant the effort of developing them for private transport roles; particularly given the absence of any distribution infrastructure whatsoever.

The only credible argument against batteries at present is to do with the sourcing of cobalt - people focus on the lithium but that's nonesense, lithim is one of the most abundant elements on the planet - the cobalt however is in far shorter supply and tends to be mined in very unsustainable fashions. One of the main focuses in battery research at present is reducing or replacing the cobalt required for the cathode. Another of the fields of significant attention is the use of silicon instead of, or more likely along with, traditional carbon in the anode.

Now all of the above being said - HFC's do have one significant advantage over Batteries, but it's not a functional one, it's a policy point. In a 'Hydrogen' economy, the application is predefined and readily seperable from other elements of the economy. This is not the case for batteries. There's a big hit to the exchequer coming down the line as fossil fuels are replaced with ...well, anything else; and here, the battery's greatest advantage also becomes its weakness - and that is that there is no way to tax electricity for transport applications easily. Hydrogen, with it's dedicated, centralised, and most importantly *entirely regulatable* distribution system means that the system we have right now could simply carry on - and politically, that's a seriously strong argument. However it's not necessarily all that relevent either as BEV's are here and progressing right now, whilst there are only two HFC vehicle in the market right now (the Mirai and the Clarity) and both, although they don't advertise it, have batteries in the region of 1.5-2kWh tucked away in there to make up for the issues with power density and response rate inherent in the HFC.

[Japcati]

Feck those leccy things.


Bring on 2019 and the new Triumph Engined Moto 2 race bikes.

Some sound from the Triumph Moto 2 engine at the NEC in November.

[Dub Duke]

Where are all the materials going to come from for all these batteries? Precious and limited materials that need to be mined, at the expense of the environment?

And what about batteries exploding? Still not convinced this has been completely negated.

Bit like the question in your last rude response - above are rhetorical - not really interested in your response as you seem the type to not discuss, but to look to bully.

[Spoonman]

Originally Posted by Dub Duke

Where are all the materials going to come from for all these batteries? Precious and limited materials that need to be mined, at the expense of the environment?

You know it could be considered rude to comment on someones post without actually having read it to begin with.

Originally Posted by Dub Duke

And what about batteries exploding? Still not convinced this has been completely negated.

Neither am I, but then petrol explodes too and a lot more quickly a violently than any current battery so I'm not sure what the big deal is

Originally Posted by Dub Duke

Bit like the question in your last rude response - above are rhetorical - not really interested in your response as you seem the type to not discuss, but to look to bully.

Says the shouty ignoramus?
Get off your high horse, put some effort into your "opinions" and then, when you've got a contribution worth discussion I'll be happy to oblige - and more to the point, perfectly happy to alter my opinion as outlined above should you convince me that my information is inaccurate or outdated.

[Caffeine]

leccy this leccy that... but the real queston is will MotoGP still have grid girls after 2019 or will the fuglies win?

[efanton]

the way I see it is internal combustion or electric really doesnt make a difference, its the performance and handling that counts.

electric will have the advantage of pure acceleration once its developed, and there's nothing they can do with the IC engine to match.

at the moment electric is very much a junior league, but it will develop and get better.

The biggy for me personally will be how much will electric bikes be restricted and crippled once they have matured.
With the torque and acceleration that will be available it would easily be possible for street legal motorbikes to do 0 to 100kph in about 3 seconds and treble that in less that 10 seconds. BUT and this is the BIG BUT, can we see nanny states allowing that sort of performance, I suspect that electric bikes will be deliberately crippled so that they are 'safe'. Being totally electric it will be relative easy for bike manufactures to limit bikes in all respects, acceleration and top speed are obvious, but I suspect with GPS becoming ubiquitous it wouldn't be outside the realms of probability to limit a electric motorbikes speed to the actual speed limit in a particular location, limit the speed prior to approaching a bend, etc, etc,

So am I looking forwards to fully developed electric bikes, yes if they are allowed to develop to the full capabilities, But I would also like to see the IC engine remain. I really cant see the need to replace one with the other, there should be two flavours available just like we currently have the choice between cruisers, sports, tourers and off road.

I cant understand people here dismissing electric bikes either for the track or the road, they have a huge amount of potential, probably exceeding that of the IC engine, but I would hate to see the end of IC engines too. Personally I think there is room and demand enough for both.

[Dub Duke]

2017 range up from 100 to 107 in example mentioned. Great progress in 105 years!

Might be laughable bullshit to you, but it's still true. If battery vehicles were really viable, it would have taken off before now. Just plugging a hole at the moment.

[RobbieBeGood]

I'll miss the sound thats for sure but the demise of the petrol engine is inevitable. The upcoming generation are likely to embrace this new technology with Elon Musk as their visionary leader! The fact that a Tesla Roadster is zooming out into the cosmos as we speak heralds of things to come.
Production of petrol engine bikes all but cease. Large manufacturers may keep a limited 'retro' line-up provided legislation and petrol prices haven't completely eradicated the possibility. Small independant manufacturers will continue to produce them for entusiasts but they won't be cheap.
For a while steam power and combustion power were in tandem but where are all the Stanley Steamers now? (plenty of steamers on here mind :)
Anyway, don't knock electric bikes until you've tried one, apparently they're rather good.

[Duke RR]

facbuk 2 wheels...thats what it is. No thanks.

sorry, but its a ball of shit



old skool for me at the determent of "global warming", if you belive that