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-   -   Honda continue in a downward spiral (https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=241118)

Duke RR 14th November 2017 04:53 PM

Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
i just read this interview, 2 yrs it took, for no results really. they turned up the the EICMA with nothing to show apart forma few [email protected] MT copies, so why bother.




these are the ppl designing bikes these days :rolleyes2:











From [B][email protected][/B]


[url]https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/features/bikes/exclusive-interview-2018-honda-africa-twin-designer[/url]



For 2018, Honda has released the new CRF1000L Africa Twin Adventure Sports, with a 24 litre tank, crash bars, large sump guard and long-travel suspension. This addition to the range includes the tweaks made to the ‘standard’ Africa Twin, which has new rider modes, a slip-assist clutch, revised inlet and exhaust ports and stainless-steel spokes. [email protected] exclusively interviewed the machine’s Large Project Leader, Kenji [email protected], to find out more…


[IMG]https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/default-website/2017/november/africa-twin-interview/kenji_morita_lpl_2018_africa_twin.ashx?h=444&w=740&la=en&hash=963DE8B432CC8B809E27AE4147BFC86EC79E2AC8[/IMG]

[quote][B]How do you think the new Adventure Sport will affect sales of the Africa Twin brand?[/B]

This bike is going to be perfect for those who want to travel very long distances. Of course, the 2016 model could do that too, as it has many touring attributes, but this bike is for people who take it to the next level – longer distances on tougher roads. For those who have very adventurous minds, this bike is perfect for them.

There are many features that make this bike a good addition to the Africa Twin range, but at the same time, there is some overlap.

How much were the modifications to the current bike influenced by customer feedback?

We had a base of feedback from our customers, but at the same time, our own ideas.



[B]Were there some choices made with the 2016 model that were a result of meeting a price point – like not using stainless-steel spokes[/B]?

First and foremost, we wanted to give a strong message to our customers, that from now on we are constantly evolving the Africa Twin, and we will keep making big developments to the bike. At the same time, we received feedback from the market, and of course they said “what about this, what about that”, and we took that into consideration for the 2018 model year. But we will keep showing our customers that we are really focussing on this Africa Twin brand.



[B]There seems a rather conspicuous gap between the CRF250 and CRF1000… surely there’s a market for something in between?[/B]

<Morita San smiles wryly as my question is translated to him> Of course, we have heard the rumours and the voices asking for something between 250 and 1000cc, and we are thinking about filling that gap. And perhaps, yes, one day there will be something filling this gap in the Honda line up. At the moment, we are just, let’s say, thinking about it.



[B]Do you think there’s a market for smaller adventure bikes that are more accessible to shorter riders?[/B]

Particularly outside of Europe, there are many people that are not tall enough to have their feet touch the floor, and of course this is something that we’re really taking into consideration. For instance, in Asia there is a low height version of the Africa Twin for the 2018 model year – that is something we did after customer feedback, but it’s not for the European market at the moment.



[B]How did you lower the bike?[/B]

We shortened the suspension – the fork itself is shorter [it’s not simply dropping the fork through the Yoke – it’s a new part].



[B]Would you consider bringing it to Europe if there’s enough demand?[/B]

Of course – if enough people ask for this, we would definitely consider this low version for the European market. We will monitor it.



[B]How do you find the balance between weight and strength in an adventure bike?[/B]

It was very difficult to find this balance – what we did was go through a number of trial and error processes. We focussed on how to get the best handling for both off-road and on-road. We really concentrated on fine-tuning the stiffness of the frame; if you have a frame that is doing its job perfectly, you can reduce the weight for so many other parts.



[B]Do you think there’s a market for a more road-focussed version of the Africa Twin, maybe with a wider, cast front wheel?[/B]

What we were thinking when we were making this bike was that we should have a total balance of on-road and off-road. Because of this, both performances are taken to a high level. Of course, many people say they are going off-road, but they’re actual stay on the tarmac. We made it as a very capable on-road bike for this reason.



[B]Do you think there are any compromises involved in reaching this balance?[/B]

Of course, some people might think there are compromises, like the front wheel size. An off-road rider might choose 21 inches [as fitted to the Africa Twin], while other makers might choose 19 inches for the road. We wanted to create an adventurer – a bike you could take everywhere, but even if you don’t use its full potential, it gives you the emotion that you could go anywhere, if you wanted to. You have this idea of adventure. Some might think this is a compromise, but it is a feature, so you can choose any kind of road. [/quote]

Fred Flinstone 14th November 2017 04:59 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
Honda have won 4 Moto GP titles in the last 5 years, so they can't be that bad. Been 10 years since Ducati won their one and only title...

renniks 14th November 2017 05:04 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
They can get ta fuck with cast wheels on the Africa Twin - this is what made the Varadero look like a turd

johnny b 14th November 2017 05:16 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=Fred Flinstone;3507175]Honda have won 4 Moto GP titles in the last 5 years, so they can't be that bad. Been 10 years since Ducati won their one and only title...[/quote]

Yes and they did that being funded by selling scooters in asia.... which Ducati dont sell.
Honda have alot more sheckles to throw at winning moto gp.

The point that Duke rr is making is that their road going variants of their bikes are becoming a yawnfest.
Instead of making the Africa twin brilliant they made it ....competant on and off road.
Honda want balance....

Now you can have your moto gp race rep v4 if you want but its euromillions pricetag is the issue.

These are the same people who brought us the rc30 rc45 the original blade, even the 954 and first 1000rr were mental design wise.
The Blackbird was exciting, the vfr750, the xr400 was unbustable, the xr650, the nsr250, the cbr400 and vfr400 were great out of the box.
All the new stuff seems bland.

They need to refresh their road going bike range with some excitment, smiling and saying we are thinking of making a mid sized off roader is just not good enough.
Saying we will be bringing a middleweight offroader that will kick ktms ass would be a better stance then fucking actually build it.

Honda's age better due to being more sensible but latley the new ones arent selling that welk as they dont have the wow factor.

All capable machines.... but they need to throw the kitchen sink at the next few bikes.. like the new Kwak h2 tourer and its big balls!

grahambo2005 14th November 2017 05:41 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
I think ultimately the issue Honda are having is that their road bikes engines just dont make the power that their competitors equivalent do.

That being said the CRF1000L when it was launched was a big success (I think Honda may have even underestimated demand)

Slow and steady wins the race I suppose.

Japcati 14th November 2017 05:47 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
he kinda looks like a japanese willy wonka,all he needs is the hat and hes there.

Kwak 14th November 2017 05:53 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
Honda number 1 , sold 300 million bikes and scooters , very happy with mine .

bonzoid 14th November 2017 07:10 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=Japcati;3507187]he kinda looks like a japanese willy wonka,all he needs is the hat and hes there.[/quote]

True, perhaps the Asian equivalent? Wonka-san?....

bandit0 14th November 2017 08:25 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
Surely it's a supply and demand scenario. For every fireblade they probably sell several thousand scooters. Bottom line at the end of the day.

Paranoid android 14th November 2017 09:33 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=bandit0;3507214]Surely it's a supply and demand scenario. For every fireblade they probably sell several thousand scooters. Bottom line at the end of the day.[/quote]

:thumbsup2::thumbsup2:

R.M 14th November 2017 10:42 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
I like their new CB1000R. Bit of old school & futuristic at the same time:thumbsup2:

Holy Moly 14th November 2017 10:58 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
They prob make more on generators than bikes !

Frisco 14th November 2017 11:10 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=renniks;3507179]They can get ta fuck with cast wheels on the Africa Twin - this is what made the Varadero look like a turd[/quote]

Playing to their actual market I suppose. If you don't go off road spokes are just a pain in the hole and the varadero was fuckin heavy for off road

niallo 14th November 2017 11:14 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=R.M;3507240]I like their new CB1000R. Bit of old school & futuristic at the same time:thumbsup2:[/quote]

Cool looking bike alright. Less extreme styling than the MT-10. And the only Honda I've seen in ages that I would consider buying.
[IMG]https://i1.wp.com/www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/2018-Honda-CB1000R-06.jpg?ssl=1[/IMG]

R.M 14th November 2017 11:23 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
If they can stick this under 15k then the y will do allright.
They are losing out on bhp compared to Yamaha,BMW (160ish) but it looks like a well finished machine, that should last the test of time.

The hugger thingy would have to go of course:thumbsup2: & stick on an after market can.

Gixxer 14th November 2017 11:26 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=R.M;3507253]& stick on an after market can.[/quote]
How is the person who designed that exhaust still in a job?

R.M 14th November 2017 11:32 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=Gixxer;3507254]How is the person who designed that exhaust still in a job?[/quote]

Someone in Brussels is giving them a handjob!!

Admin 14th November 2017 11:37 PM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
The new Goldwing looks fairly innovative with that front wishbone suspension instead of forks, probably similar / an improvement on BMW's design ;

[IMG]http://www.biker.ie/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2018_Honda_Gold_Wing-double-wishbone-suspension.jpg[/IMG]

Cant imagine there being much feedback, but it'd be a good strong front end for big 3-wheelers and the like.

The africa twin is selling well, the fireblade aswell and they're topping the charts all over the world with 125's, so it's probably a case of 'if it aint broke, dont fix it' , and there aren't really too many alternatives with it comes to automatic / DCT motorbikes at the moment, although these have been slow to catch on as that general market fears change / sticks with tradition and what they know but if some bikers even tried it ~ they'd realise it's ideal for touring and commuting and using a clutch/changing gear is one less thing to concentrate on.

Honda are certainly behind with electronics though - Bosch's cornering ABS for instance is leagues ahead of Hondas C-ABS at a fraction of the bulk & weight, even if Honda were one of the first to introduce that system on a superbike for everyday / wet weather riding, they're just lagging behind now.

They'll make a killing on the new [URL="http://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=240788"]2018 Honda 50[/URL] too I imagine (especially the SP model), Vespas are so last season.

Kavo 15th November 2017 10:40 AM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=johnny b;3507183]Yes and they did that being funded by selling scooters in asia.... which Ducati dont sell.
Honda have alot more sheckles to throw at winning moto gp.[/quote]

Ducati are backed by the Audi group at the moment so they've plenty of money to spend sure they've already thrown 25 million euros at Lorenzo for a 2 year deal alone

johnny b 15th November 2017 11:54 AM

Re: Honda continue in a downward spiral
 
[quote=Kavo;3507284]Ducati are backed by the Audi group at the moment so they've plenty of money to spend sure they've already thrown 25 million euros at Lorenzo for a 2 year deal alone[/quote]

Selling top end luxuary cars to europeans is harder then selling mopeds in emerging markets.

Audi is valued at 14billion,
Honda is valued at 54billion.

Audi is not short of sheckles but cant possibly match the purse for R&D that honda have.

25 million for a fickle rider is a mistake in my opinion.
Lerenzo needs all things perfect to get results and I havent seen a unicorn in the Ducati camp since that whinge bag stoner left.

Honda just need to concentrate on fun and reliability not safety systems no one needs.

I love Honda but its hard to love bikes like the vfr1200, crosstourer, nc750, that fucking batman bike and even the new crf250 rally has missed the mark by 200cc....

They need to shake things up, slap on turbos, give alot more tech as standard and a few fucking extras... not even a center stand comes standard on Bikes these days....


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