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-   -   2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP (https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=247532)

N1ghtr08d 11th February 2019 07:17 AM

2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
Hi guys, I have the weirdest problem with my bike. Sometimes, only sometimes, when I start the bike and the engine starts running, the starter motor will continue to keep trying to start the bike and even if I turn off the engine, it continues to keep trying.
The only way I can stop it is to turn off the ignition, pop the seat, and pull out the solenoid.
As you can imagine it's not only alarming but it's very impractical!

Can anyone shine some light on what's happening and how to fix it?

joe williams 11th February 2019 08:35 AM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
Have you tryed changing the solinoid ?

Confusion 11th February 2019 11:39 AM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[quote=N1ghtr08d;3564054]...the starter motor will continue to keep trying to start the bike and even if I turn off the engine, it continues to keep trying. [/quote]

If the starter turns with the ignition switch in the off position, the
starter relay/solenoid is jammed on. Once the contacts are burned
or damaged, they tend to get welded together.

[quote]Can anyone shine some light on what's happening and how to fix it?[/quote]

You can take it out and test it. It might even be possible to crack it
open and clean the contacts. As JW said above, the best option is
to replace it. You don't want to fcuk your sprag clutch or starter.

spray____ 11th February 2019 01:16 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
Happy to be corrected here, but I don't believe the starter has a solenoid. The starter motor uses some gears and a sprag clutch to interface with the crankshaft. Most likely the clutch isn't letting go once the engine starts up and overtakes the speed of the starter motor. Worth taking it apart and giving it a clean. Could be springs are worn and need stretching/replacement.

[url]https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-xl1000v-varadero-2000-y-european-direct-sales_model6479/partslist/E__0800.html#.XGF0tuL7RTY[/url]

[url]https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-xl1000v-varadero-2000-y-european-direct-sales_model6479/partslist/E__1100.html#.XGF0uOL7RTY[/url]

N1ghtr08d 11th February 2019 02:05 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
It's a brand new solenoid and battery lads and the new solenoid was already replaced with another new one, just in case.

spray____ 11th February 2019 02:21 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
Ah, I see... solenoid = relay.

Does the solenoid/relay have power even when the ignition switch is off? A multimeter or a circuit test light would tell you. I haven't seen the wiring diagram yet, but I would be surprised if it does. It probably isn't supposed to.

DavyH 11th February 2019 02:25 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
So if Iím reading that right,the motor is still turning with the kill switch off but ignition switch on?

Itís not the sprag,because it would stop with the engine! So it has to be electrical,was the replacement starter relay a genuine part or chinesium? Iíve had issues with aftermarket relays in the past so I refuse to use them. Itís a basic circuit so shouldnít be too difficult to trouble shoot,some older Hondaís will still turn the engine over with the kill switch in the off position so a sticky starter switch might also be the issue

spray____ 11th February 2019 02:30 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[url=https://imgbb.com/][img]https://i.ibb.co/s1NYThW/Screenshot-2019-02-11-14-25-12.png[/img][/url]

Page 383: [url]https://www.manualslib.com/manual/864949/Honda-Varadero-Mk1-Xl-1000-V.html[/url]

R: from ignition switch
Y/R: from starter button
G/R: from clutch switch
R/W: goes to/from regulator/rectifier?

spray____ 11th February 2019 04:23 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
Studied it a little longer and the picture is becoming more clear. I believe R and R/W is power through the main fuse to most of the bike. Don't think they're related to the start circuit.

G/R should be +12v from the start switch when the button is pressed. Y/R would have a path to ground when your neutral switch, clutch switch, and side stand switch allow starting. This would be the one to check. If you're getting 12v across these without pressing the button, you can start to trace the problem.

Confusion 11th February 2019 07:25 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[quote=spray____;3564101]Ah, I see... solenoid = relay.[/quote]

Bike manuals usually refer to it as the starter relay. Older automotive texts
will often call it the solenoid, regardless of whether it is a separate unit
or integrated into the starter (pre-engaged type).

In any case, an electro-mechanical relay will have a solenoid.

[quote]Does the solenoid/relay have power even when the ignition switch is off?[/quote]

Generally no. Once the ignition is off, circuits associated with the starter
should be dead.

[quote]Studied it a little longer and the picture is becoming more clear. I believe R and R/W is power through the main fuse to most of the bike. Don't think they're related to the start circuit.[/quote]

Correct. Most bikes have the main fuse at the starter relay. Input to
the main fuse is direct from the battery positive lead, output goes
to the ignition switch and from there to the fuse/junction box for
distribution to the various electrical circuits on the bike.

It shouldn't be possible for the starter relay coil to draw current
with the ignition off, unless there has been a a catastrophic insulation
failure. This can happen in carpark fires where burning motors that
are left in gear start driving through the flames when the wiring loom
melts.

Confusion 11th February 2019 07:36 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[quote=N1ghtr08d;3564097]It's a brand new solenoid and battery lads and the new solenoid was already replaced with another new one, just in case.[/quote]

I was talking to someone recently who bought a new regulator-rectifier
and a new starter relay from a Chinese seller on eBay. His bike is
a large Honda. The MOSFET regulator-rectifier works very well.
Voltage regulation is much better than it was with the original Honda part.

The starter relay didn't work out so well. After just a few successful starts,
it jammed on and showed the exact same symptoms you are seeing.

Where did your new relay/solenoid come from?

Rainman 12th February 2019 10:03 AM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
Would put my money on Confusion being right, Honda's have form here, happened on both my CBX and a Pan 1100, the common denominator was not necessarily a cheap or dodgy starter relay (also happened with a genuine Honda relay), but when I upgraded the battery on both bikes to a lithium ion battery, it may be the case that the current draw during the cranking of these big engines exceeded what the contacts in the relay were designed for, and thus causing the contacts to fuse together, may not be the case, but just another theory to throw out there in case you did change your battery recently, unfortunately the ignition and regulatory circuits are the weakest link with Hondas.
Downgrading the battery to a lead acid on the Pan seemed to eliminate the problem, the old CBX still has the li-ion battery installed, but bizarrely, a cheap Chinese relay that's in there now seems to be working happily for now.

Confusion 12th February 2019 12:05 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[quote=Confusion;3564115]
It shouldn't be possible for the starter relay coil to draw current
with the ignition off....[/quote]

Unlikely, but worth mentioning:
Is the bike fitted with an aftermarket alarm? Some of the
cheap nasty ones have a remote start feature. An alarm or
key-fob fault could activate the starter relay.

DavyH 12th February 2019 07:51 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[quote=DavyH;3564102]So if Iím reading that right,the motor is still turning with the kill switch off but ignition switch on?

Itís not the sprag,because it would stop with the engine! So it has to be electrical,[B]was the replacement starter relay a genuine part or chinesium? Iíve had issues with aftermarket relays in the past so I refuse to use them[/B]. Itís a basic circuit so shouldnít be too difficult to trouble shoot,some older Hondaís will still turn the engine over with the kill switch in the off position so a sticky starter switch might also be the issue[/quote]

:doh:

N1ghtr08d 12th February 2019 09:03 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
The battery and solenoid were both purchased from GP Motos in Finglas, a mechanic I trust, and he told me he doesn't use the Chinese solenoids for the exact reason outlined above.

DavyH 12th February 2019 09:59 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[quote=N1ghtr08d;3564180]The battery and solenoid were both purchased from GP Motos in Finglas, a mechanic I trust, and he told me he doesn't use the Chinese solenoids for the exact reason outlined above.[/quote]

Check if the engine turns over with the kill switch off, if it does then likely it’s an issue with the starter switch or there’s a chafe in the wiring between it and the relay causing it to short out

If that fails you’d have to suspect the relay is duff...

Rainman 13th February 2019 08:59 AM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[quote=DavyH;3564181]Check if the engine turns over with the kill switch off, if it does then likely itís an issue with the starter switch or thereís a chafe in the wiring between it and the relay causing it to short out

If that fails youíd have to suspect the relay is duff...[/quote]

Don't a lot of the older Honda's turn over with the Kill switch off ?, I know my Africa Twin and Transalp all turned over with the kill switch off, even the newer XL700V does the same, not sure about the Varadero, but it being an "Older brother" of the above mentioned bikes, it might do the same, maybe somebody with a similar vintage Varadero might try this for you, before assuming that this is a fault with the starter switch.

DavyH 14th February 2019 02:16 PM

Re: 2000 Honda Varadero xl1000 starter motor sticks...? PLEASE HELP
 
[quote=Rainman;3564196]Don't a lot of the older Honda's turn over with the Kill switch off ?, I know my Africa Twin and Transalp all turned over with the kill switch off, even the newer XL700V does the same, not sure about the Varadero, but it being an "Older brother" of the above mentioned bikes, it might do the same, maybe somebody with a similar vintage Varadero might try this for you, before assuming that this is a fault with the starter switch.[/quote]

They do indeed. Iím almost sure my Sp does...and my old firestorm definitely did too


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