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-   -   Engine warning on clutch pull (https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=247421)

FatherTed 31st January 2019 12:19 PM

Engine warning on clutch pull
 
This just started recently - on a Yamaha MT07.

When cold and I move off, as soon as I pull the clutch in to change to second the entire bike cuts out, engine lights etc. When I release the clutch it (sometimes) comes back on and starts to fire up, but not always successful. It's as if the ignition key was turned off when the clutch was pulled!

I have also noticed that sometimes when I pull the clutch in the engine warning light (small yellow one) comes on and goes off again when I let the clutch out.

It is very intermittent and doesn't always happen. Seems to happen about once or twice a week now. But very scary on a dark country road!
The bike is an MT07.

Any idea what to start looking for?
The only electrical contact on the clutch is the cut off connector?

Any ideas?

DavyH 31st January 2019 01:18 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=FatherTed;3563317]This just started recently - on a Yamaha MT07.

When cold and I move off, as soon as I pull the clutch in to change to second the entire bike cuts out, engine lights etc. When I release the clutch it (sometimes) comes back on and starts to fire up, but not always successful. It's as if the ignition key was turned off when the clutch was pulled!

I have also noticed that sometimes when I pull the clutch in the engine warning light (small yellow one) comes on and goes off again when I let the clutch out.

It is very intermittent and doesn't always happen. Seems to happen about once or twice a week now. But very scary on a dark country road!
The bike is an MT07.

Any idea what to start looking for?
The only electrical contact on the clutch is the cut off connector?

Any ideas?[/quote]

So the clutch switch is doing 2 things,it’s a safety switch and also it communicates with the ecu for fueling purposes. Have a look at the external contacts for the switch firstly,they’re pretty exposed to the elements. Failing that you could open the switch but probably best just to replace it.
Without plugging it in I’m guessing here....but it would explain the 2 symptoms. Ideally you should get it plugged it an see what it throws up

Frankkilty 31st January 2019 01:37 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
Could it also be the gear position sensor?

FatherTed 31st January 2019 01:51 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=DavyH;3563322]So the clutch switch is doing 2 things,itís a safety switch and also it communicates with the ecu for fueling purposes. Have a look at the external contacts for the switch firstly,theyíre pretty exposed to the elements. Failing that you could open the switch but probably best just to replace it.
Without plugging it in Iím guessing here....but it would explain the 2 symptoms. Ideally you should get it plugged it an see what it throws up[/quote]

Would I have to do that at a specialist or would most garages be able to do that?

DavyH 31st January 2019 02:12 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=Frankkilty;3563327]Could it also be the gear position sensor?[/quote]

It could,or even the side stand switch....

DavyH 31st January 2019 02:13 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=FatherTed;3563329]Would I have to do that at a specialist or would most garages be able to do that?[/quote]

Anywhere that has even basic Yamaha diagnostics should be able to read it:thumbsup2:

FatherTed 31st January 2019 02:25 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=Frankkilty;3563327]Could it also be the gear position sensor?[/quote]

Would that cause the entire bike to shut down?

DavyH 31st January 2019 02:32 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=FatherTed;3563333]Would that cause the entire bike to shut down?[/quote]

When you say the entire bike,do the instruments stay on? Or is it just stalling out,the headlight will go off if it stalls too

FatherTed 31st January 2019 09:03 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=DavyH;3563334]When you say the entire bike,do the instruments stay on? Or is it just stalling out,the headlight will go off if it stalls too[/quote]

Everything off...engine, headlight, dashboard. As soon as I release the cluthch it all comes back on. Like turning the ignition key off when the clutch is pulled in. And only when changing gear. Clutching in when at rest is ok, apart from the engine warning light coming on when the lever is pulled.
Very bizarre.

DavyH 31st January 2019 09:38 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=FatherTed;3563346]Everything off...engine, headlight, dashboard. As soon as I release the cluthch it all comes back on. Like turning the ignition key off when the clutch is pulled in. And only when changing gear. Clutching in when at rest is ok, apart from the engine warning light coming on when the lever is pulled.
Very bizarre.[/quote]

That is bizarre...all signs would point to the clutch switch/safety circuit if it was a simple stall,however complete loss of power is pointing elsewhere,there are so many systems interlocking one way or another that itís going to come down to something very simple. Seeing as the clutch switch is looking like the catalyst Iíd say that would be a starting point. Iíll have a scout through the wiring diagrams on Saturday if youíre still stuck and give you a bit of direction :thumbsup2:

FatherTed 31st January 2019 10:24 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=DavyH;3563347]That is bizarre...all signs would point to the clutch switch/safety circuit if it was a simple stall,however complete loss of power is pointing elsewhere,there are so many systems interlocking one way or another that itís going to come down to something very simple. Seeing as the clutch switch is looking like the catalyst Iíd say that would be a starting point. Iíll have a scout through the wiring diagrams on Saturday if youíre still stuck and give you a bit of direction :thumbsup2:[/quote]

Cheers for that!

the landshark 1st February 2019 12:02 AM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
first thing i'd be checking is the integrity of the earthing points.

nednedned 1st February 2019 02:31 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[url]https://youtu.be/lFT1ICAEfGg[/url]

May not be related. Have a read of his comments. one mentions a mt-07. goto abt 6.30

[url]https://www.fz07oc.com/forums/fz-07-mt-07-common-problems-issues.14/[/url]

chopper 1st February 2019 03:02 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
I'm kinda hectic here at the mo . I'll get back to ya later . Think I've fixed this same prob before

chopper 1st February 2019 03:02 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
Maybe ring me

FatherTed 1st February 2019 03:43 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=nednedned;3563408][url]https://youtu.be/lFT1ICAEfGg[/url]

May not be related. Have a read of his comments. one mentions a mt-07. goto abt 6.30

[url]https://www.fz07oc.com/forums/fz-07-mt-07-common-problems-issues.14/[/url][/quote]

That is the EXACT same issue! Great find dude.
Turns out the cold weather was causing the starter to become "stuck" and not returning to its start position. I also noticed the "autostart" feature and thought it was a cool feature of that bike.

Thanks a million for the find. :thumbsup2:

AndyK 2nd February 2019 05:15 AM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
That happened to mine as well.

From what I understand the original spring that returns the switch to its idle position is really weak and when any dirt etc gets in there (with our weather it's pretty much a given that dirt will get in) it simply cant push it back up from the starter position, so if you don't notice it you end up driving around with the starter on.

Give it a quick google search, it seems to be a common problem. Yam decided to reinvent the wheel for no good reason and did a shitty job of it. The design is apparently also being brought to other models too (hopefully with a better spring).

Thankfully I heard the noise difference when it happened first, then just got used to manually moving it back when starting the bike. Eventually got it fixed under warranty, hasn't happened again since. Some other guy they had to fix it for wasn't so lucky, he never noticed it was stuck on. I'd say the only reason I heard it was because I still have the wimpy quiet stock exhaust.

FatherTed 2nd February 2019 09:36 AM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
[quote=AndyK;3563448]That happened to mine as well.

From what I understand the original spring that returns the switch to its idle position is really weak and when any dirt etc gets in there (with our weather it's pretty much a given that dirt will get in) it simply cant push it back up from the starter position, so if you don't notice it you end up driving around with the starter on.

Give it a quick google search, it seems to be a common problem. Yam decided to reinvent the wheel for no good reason and did a shitty job of it. The design is apparently also being brought to other models too (hopefully with a better spring).

Thankfully I heard the noise difference when it happened first, then just got used to manually moving it back when starting the bike. Eventually got it fixed under warranty, hasn't happened again since. Some other guy they had to fix it for wasn't so lucky, he never noticed it was stuck on. I'd say the only reason I heard it was because I still have the wimpy quiet stock exhaust.[/quote]

I agree, it is a totally useless design. Why change it and introduce these kind of issues?
Have you ever tried removing it and cleaning it? Is it an easy task?

AndyK 2nd February 2019 03:32 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
The only cleaning I tried was spraying a bit of contact cleaner in followed by some rummaging from a long soft bristle paintbrush - which helped, but after a dozen trips in crappy weather the problem reappeared. I'd say the cleaner probably got rid of some needed lube as well as the dirt so not a permanent fix.

I never went through taking it apart as it was covered by warranty so no need, just brought it in to be fixed (along with a stubborn gear changing problem which persists, budget parts me thinks)

I did find a thread when I first looked into it of a guy who opened it up to upgrade the spring.

[url]https://fz07.org/thread/5810/fix-sticky-starter-switch/[/url]

Read the whole thread. One of the posts has pictures. One guy broke something. Seems it's easy enough to fix, just need to be careful - small parts that can be easily dropped or broken. You'll need a get and possibly cut a new spring for it too, Radionics might have something suitable.

DavyH 2nd February 2019 07:07 PM

Re: Engine warning on clutch pull
 
Actually had a similar issue with an mt09...far as I remember bike still ran but starter stuck on...same switch. Was replaced under warranty. In saying that there has been heaps of them through the doors and mt07ís and thatís the only one I recall failing. The switch on the the Fjr is a much more stout unit,would be a better job if it could be retrofitted


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