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-   -   A question I've been wondering answered... (https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=248429)

Dominus Obsequious Sororium 14th May 2019 05:07 PM

A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[url]http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/garda-clampdown-bikes-escooters/[/url]

Caffeine 14th May 2019 05:35 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
To be expected. But that blanket dangerous driving is BS.

the landshark 14th May 2019 08:53 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
They can also do the rider for no tax, insurance, licence, helmet, lights and numberplate as one lad found out outside my job the other week.
This was a lad on an electric bicycle.

faz1 14th May 2019 10:33 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
Meanwhile, in less pressing matters for the force, the elderly fraternity stay locked indoors fearing a burglary and atms are walking unaccompanied out of the banks. At least we'll have manners put on them scooter hooligans...

me2 14th May 2019 11:20 PM

[QUOTE=Caffeine;3571616]To be expected. But that blanket dangerous driving is BS.[/QUOTE]
What it really is in one hypenated word "cash-cow".

woodsman 15th May 2019 07:08 AM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
Those electric scooters are flittered all over the streets of Paris. Seemingly you down load an app and jump on.

Rockster 15th May 2019 07:31 AM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
Reckon they'll legislate them out of existence, ie a licence, tax insurance hi viz indicators and helmet all required thus making them a complete faff for someone just dipping their toe in.
Think they could be a real solution to the traffic gridlocked shithole that is Dublin city. If I had my way I would treat them the same as a bicycle and allow them to be used in cycle lanes. A lot of them have a 25kmh top speed which is well within cycling territory. Existing laws should be enforced without making up new ones. You cant use them on a footpath (just like a bicycle) and the petrol engined ones that can go up to 50mph are a mpv (were talking about the electric powered commuter yokes).
I expect Shane Ross and co will show a complete lack of imagination and they will be treated the same as a mototrbike...

Japcati 15th May 2019 09:56 AM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
So what happenes if 1 of these leccy scooter yokes or petrol assisted cycles collides with you and causes damage to your bike and puts you in hospital?

You have to take the financial hit yourself and also the injury and loss of earnings too.
While John Joe and his leccy scooter or petrol assisted bike gets off Scott free???

Duke RR 15th May 2019 10:49 AM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
theyre classified as motorised and imo , they should be subject to road regs like anyone else who pays tax / insurance.

And like japcati says, they run into you or someone else, they have no cover.


the idea of them is good, but ive seen ppl fall off them - wheels are too small, and some of them fairly zip along and like a scooter or small bike, ppl dont know how to control them at any speed. I reckon the brakes are inadequate. its a propelled bike so should require a license etc. there is no argument against that fact.

in addition the "riders" , they cant hand signal or the like as the thing is too unstable to take your hands off the bars , particularly the right side where you accelerate from.

ive seen ppl on them acting the prik on footpaths, red lights usual shite, and these aint kids. they dont really follow road rules to boot either.

TuneR 15th May 2019 11:42 AM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
Fits the bill, should be taxed/insured/roadworthy and driver should be licensed.

“mechanically propelled vehicle” means, subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including—


(a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,


(b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical,

Rockster 15th May 2019 11:46 AM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[QUOTE=Japcati;3571701]So what happenes if 1 of these leccy scooter yokes or petrol assisted cycles collides with you and causes damage to your bike and puts you in hospital?

You have to take the financial hit yourself and also the injury and loss of earnings too.
While John Joe and his leccy scooter or petrol assisted bike gets off Scott free???[/QUOTE]

Same deal as if a bicycle runs into you. Look, 25 km is 15mph in real money. I'm no Chris Froome but that speed is easily attainable on a bicycle.
It's an offence to cycle a bicycle on a footpath, the same should apply to these yokes. Just need to get the useless Ngardai off their arses and enforce existing laws rather than have useless politicians dream up new ones (which also won't be enforced)
Think yis are missing the bigger picture lads, for everyone one of these yokes there is one less cage on the road making life easier and safer for us and our 4 wheeled counterparts. Insurance is always the biggest impediment to getting anything done in this litigious country....

Rockster 15th May 2019 11:54 AM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[QUOTE=Duke RR;3571706]theyre classified as motorised and imo , they should be subject to road regs like anyone else who pays tax / insurance.

And like japcati says, they run into you or someone else, they have no cover.


the idea of them is good, but ive seen ppl fall off them - wheels are too small, and some of them fairly zip along and like a scooter or small bike, ppl dont know how to control them at any speed. I reckon the brakes are inadequate. its a propelled bike so should require a license etc. there is no argument against that fact.

in addition the "riders" , they cant hand signal or the like as the thing is too unstable to take your hands off the bars , particularly the right side where you accelerate from.

ive seen ppl on them acting the prik on footpaths, red lights usual shite, and these aint kids. they dont really follow road rules to boot either.[/QUOTE]

Bit of a grey area whether they are motorised or not. You have to scoot, ie push with your leg to start them off so they are mechanically assisted as opposed to propelled. As regards hand signals and the like, to me it's the same as a bicycle, not too fond of taking my and of the handlebars on that either.
Battery assisted bicycles are actually much faster so do we go down the road of making sure they're taxed insured etc up to the hilt.

renniks 15th May 2019 12:04 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[QUOTE=Rockster;3571713]Bit of a grey area whether they are motorised or not. You have to scoot, ie push with your leg to start them off so they are mechanically assisted as opposed to propelled. As regards hand signals and the like, to me it's the same as a bicycle, not too fond of taking my and of the handlebars on that either.
Battery assisted bicycles are actually much faster so do we go down the road of making sure they're taxed insured etc up to the hilt.[/QUOTE]

You have to peddle a battery assisted bicycle - they do not have a throttle on the bars. These leccy scooters - if they have a throttle on the bars, then I would argue that they are not assisted, but propelled instead. If you have to keep on 'scooting' with your foot, then they would be assisted, and not propelled, but is this the case with them?

Holy Moly 15th May 2019 12:12 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[QUOTE=Rockster;3571709]Same deal as if a bicycle runs into you. Look, 25 km is 15mph in real money. I'm no Chris Froome but that speed is easily attainable on a bicycle.
It's an offence to cycle a bicycle on a footpath, the same should apply to these yokes. Just need to get the useless Ngardai off their arses and enforce existing laws rather than have useless politicians dream up new ones (which also won't be enforced)
Think yis are missing the bigger picture lads, for everyone one of these yokes there is one less cage on the road making life easier and safer for us and our 4 wheeled counterparts. Insurance is always the biggest impediment to getting anything done in this litigious country....[/QUOTE]

Absolutely bang on. Think they're a brilliant idea, the little scooters. E-bike is taking the piss a bit, they can go fairly quick, pedal assist bike also brilliant. Scooters all over Europe that you can rent and use cycle lanes and is encouraged. Here, nah, tax, fine and begrudge the fuck out of them. Our usual small village suffucating mentality, boils my piss.
Some common sense approach needed is all, speed restricted, working brakes, cycle helmet and front rear lights - like a bicycle, is not a big ask or big compromise. Think 30kph is good top speed to stick to. Been in a few European cities the past few weeks, we are so far behind in urban transport it's frightening.

Dominus Obsequious Sororium 15th May 2019 01:15 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[QUOTE=renniks;3571714]You have to peddle a battery assisted bicycle - they do not have a throttle on the bars. These leccy scooters - if they have a throttle on the bars, then I would argue that they are not assisted, but propelled instead. If you have to keep on 'scooting' with your foot, then they would be assisted, and not propelled, but is this the case with them?[/QUOTE]

The clarification was that, even if you have to scoot to start, if they can continue entirely on their own power, they are motorised...

Dominus Obsequious Sororium 15th May 2019 01:23 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[QUOTE=Holy Moly;3571716]Absolutely bang on. Think they're a brilliant idea, the little scooters. E-bike is taking the piss a bit, they can go fairly quick, pedal assist bike also brilliant. Scooters all over Europe that you can rent and use cycle lanes and is encouraged. Here, nah, tax, fine and begrudge the fuck out of them. Our usual small village suffucating mentality, boils my piss.
Some common sense approach needed is all, speed restricted, working brakes, cycle helmet and front rear lights - like a bicycle, is not a big ask or big compromise. Think 30kph is good top speed to stick to. Been in a few European cities the past few weeks, we are so far behind in urban transport it's frightening.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, the problem here is there's a mismatch between the legislation and the e-scooters, which should be amended to allow them...

The reason I wondered though, was that I keep seeing these things doing significantly more than 25kph, some going proper quick...I would not like to be hit by one...

GreenRex 15th May 2019 02:26 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
Common here, only issue I have with them is they are incredibly unstable. City is here has enforced a rule that they must be shutdown after 1am, somewhat stops the drunks from getting on them and killing themselves. Also they are speed restricted to I think 20mph, still fast enough to bust yer ass, if you hit a pothole the wrong way on one of these. Electric bikes are s tarting to come in which make far more sense ( bigger wheels)

However some health insurance companies are refusing to pay out for injuries suffered on these, if you are proved at fault. So you are on your own if you act the prick, as it should be. I think they are a good solution to traffic issues, however you need to have the infrastructure in place to seperate them from general traffic. They are very vunerable

ENGLISH 16th May 2019 08:42 AM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
I saw a chap last week wearing bike gear and a full face on some class of a unicycle - small wide single wheel with a platform around it that you stand on - sounded like a petrol engine inside. He was doing a fair lick out in a lane of traffic.

Copper on a bike saw him and went after him.

Holy Moly 16th May 2019 01:34 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[QUOTE=Dominus Obsequious Sororium;3571737]Absolutely, the problem here is there's a mismatch between the legislation and the e-scooters, which should be amended to allow them...

The reason I wondered though, was that I keep seeing these things doing significantly more than 25kph, some going proper quick...I would not like to be hit by one...[/QUOTE]

Look up YouTube, some can go in excess of 80kph with big batteries and a powerful motor, which is bonkers. They could limit the power of the motor I suppose and you'll get great mileage from the larger battery instead of power. A bicycle can easily be at 25mph with a fit lad or lassie on it, just as hard to get hit by. As per usual if the rules of the road are obeyed, there should not be accidents of the collision variety. I'd love one as a toy, but being a fat fuck I need one of the expensive ones to cart me around.

DavyH 16th May 2019 02:56 PM

Re: A question I've been wondering answered...
 
[QUOTE=Japcati;3571701]So what happenes if 1 of these leccy scooter yokes or petrol assisted cycles collides with you and causes damage to your bike and puts you in hospital?

You have to take the financial hit yourself and also the injury and loss of earnings too.
While John Joe and his leccy scooter or petrol assisted bike gets off Scott free???[/QUOTE]

I’d say if you’re lucky enough to get genuine details off the person then the only course of action would be a civil case...I’d say be a pain in the bollox sorting a mess like that out


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