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-   -   Alternative Running-in Technique (https://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=249984)

BigDiggity 29th September 2019 12:17 PM

Alternative Running-in Technique
 
How'ya lads.

I'm looking at buying an MT10 in the next week or two and if I do, it will be my first ever brand new bike.

I was reading the FZ10/MT10 forum to try find out in advance what the running in period is like on it... I came across this post which criticizes manufacturer running in techniques and promotes another. I'm hoping some of the more mechanically experienced lads might give their opinion on it. So hear it is....

[I]There are many opinions and methods. I use a version of the motoman break in method. You can read about it here [url]www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm[/url]

The theory is that factories recommend soft break in procedures for reasons of rider safety . They wisely pretend that everyone who buys their bikes are brand new idiot riders, for legal reasons. This is also one of the reasons why USA bikes often have less power than European models, as well as for emission laws.

If you have a brand new unridden bike, 3-6 miles on the bike, then this is MY opinion on how to break it in properly. I say my opinion because if you try this and then pull out in front of a semi and get yourself killed, your family cannot sue me. Take this for what it's worth.

This is ideally done away from traffic on a track or on a country road. Start the bike, do not rev it!! let it warm up no more than 30 seconds.

Take off and rev it to at least 3000 rpm or more in ea gear quickly. AVOID RUNNING AT THE SAME RPM! Run the hell out of it for the first 20 miles. Revving up to 5-6000 rpm and then let off the gas and let it decel down, up to 6000 rpm, let it decel down. Do this for the first twenty miles.

At or around 20 miles on the odometer. Drain the oil, change the filter. Refill with non synthetic.


the first 600 miles, be very careful not to run at the same constant RPM level . Let it rev up a few hundred rpms, back down a few hundred rpm's. Not enough to piss off the car behind you, just little throttle adjustments.

The idea is to let the rings seat and work into the cylinders properly, to avid oil blowby later on after break in.

Change oil and filter again at 600 miles.

Ride normally the next 600miles, change oil and filter again at 1200 miles. Then, switch to factory recommended intervals.

Using this method, I have had numerous bikes last well over 100,000 miles. One of my old bikes was sold to a guy five years ago and he is still running original engine at 158,000 miles on it.

Again, this is just what i do, it's just my opinion and differs from "other" break in methods. It's also slightly different from the motorman method listed above.

The worst things you can do to an engine.

1.Baby the engine during break in, especially the first 20 miles. Get on a track or country road and ride it like you stole it.

2.Letting it idle too much in the first 20 miles. Let it warm up for like a minute max. Dont ever rev it while it is in neutral. LEt it warm up for like a minute, maybe two and take off.

3. Riding at the same rpm during the first 600 miles. A new engine needs the wide range of rpm's, dont pin it and leave it there either. Rev up, rev down. Avoid the highway first 600 miles.

4.Revving it while it is just sitting there. Stupid and it's horrible for your bike. Revi it while it is moving only!

Read the motoman link above at the beginning of this thread.

Why dont factories recommend this in the manual? Again, they want you to ride new bikes very carefully for legal reasons. They are afraid that some idiot will try this and get run over by the car behind them on a busy street by revving down. Also, (again this is just my opinion) but what would happen to their sales if all their bikes suddenly started lasting over 150,000 miles? Right...[/I]

sharpbikes 29th September 2019 01:14 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
me dad bought a new z1000 in 03, he asked the dealer that sold it to him how to run it in (kawasaki dealer) and his reply was ride it like ya stole it..... my dad questioned this and asked what happens if it breaks down or engine gets damaged, dealers reply was "thats what the warranty is for" he never had an issue with the bike from day one.

BigDiggity 29th September 2019 02:54 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=sharpbikes;3580573]me dad bought a new z1000 in 03, he asked the dealer that sold it to him how to run it in (kawasaki dealer) and his reply was ride it like ya stole it..... my dad questioned this and asked what happens if it breaks down or engine gets damaged, dealers reply was "thats what the warranty is for" he never had an issue with the bike from day one.[/QUOTE]

Good to know it's still going strong... my only issue with that reply from the dealer would be that if it was the wrong way of breaking the bike in, it leads to a shorter life for the engine as opposed to causing trouble straight away so would be out of warranty by the time the engine starts to fail.

I'm open to the idea though, I think it makes sense to work it through the rev range properly early on to get everything seated correctly and change the oil after the first few miles.

corkgsxr 29th September 2019 02:54 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
The constant revs is more dont ride hour or so at fixed revs not being afraid 5 mins of same speed will hurt it.

Just drive it like you would any other bike you bought.

iano 29th September 2019 02:58 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
Run it in as manufacturers recommend
End of

sharpbikes 29th September 2019 03:09 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=BigDiggity;3580579]Good to know it's still going strong... my only issue with that reply from the dealer would be that if it was the wrong way of breaking the bike in, it leads to a shorter life for the engine as opposed to causing trouble straight away so would be out of warranty by the time the engine starts to fail.

I'm open to the idea though, I think it makes sense to work it through the rev range properly early on to get everything seated correctly and change the oil after the first few miles.[/QUOTE]

i understand what you mean, always considered that the dealer wanted to see it again for a rebuild outside the manufacturer warranty, way i see it is every bike goes on the dyno after build to ensure engine is up to scratch, running in happens after this.

Alex> 29th September 2019 03:44 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
Watch this before you do it.

[URL="https://youtu.be/Ij7-LyOFlUU"]https://youtu.be/Ij7-LyOFlUU[/URL]

me2 29th September 2019 05:17 PM

[QUOTE=iano;3580581]Run it in as manufacturers recommend
End of[/QUOTE]

While appreciating ya may have a pain in the hole eying clapped out minters on dung deal, ya should spare a thought for all the breakers ya'll hurt with advice like that. :bag:

Jack stowage 29th September 2019 05:26 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
Simple...enjoy riding the fuck out of it for 9 months...drain the oil out of it...rev it until it just seizes...oil back in...bring it back to the shop with its now "diesel" sounding engine and get a new bike/engine..

Good enough for the pikeys.......fact....:smileee:

Gixxer 29th September 2019 07:01 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=iano;3580581]Run it in as manufacturers recommend
End of[/QUOTE]

This ^^^

One look at that guy's website is enough to remove any and all credibility. It looks like it was built 30 years ago by a 6 year old.

chopper 29th September 2019 07:51 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
Emm. Running in steadily is also for safety, ie if there is a dodgy bearing/ring/shaft/valve or whatever it'll show up without catapulting the rider off the bike . In my experience a faster run in bike will typically make a little more power but will not last as long .

BigDiggity 29th September 2019 08:44 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=chopper;3580599]Emm. Running in steadily is also for safety, ie if there is a dodgy bearing/ring/shaft/valve or whatever it'll show up without catapulting the rider off the bike . In my experience a faster run in bike will typically make a little more power but will not last as long .[/QUOTE]

I didn't consider the importance of that safety aspect.

Longevity and reliability is what I'm really after from the correct run in procedure.

Cheers :thumbsup2:

BigDiggity 29th September 2019 08:46 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
Cheers for all the input lads, a fairly resounding opinion there.

I'll stick to the recommended run in procedure in the book.

:thumbsup2:

DavyH 30th September 2019 01:17 AM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=sharpbikes;3580582]i understand what you mean, always considered that the dealer wanted to see it again for a rebuild outside the manufacturer warranty, way i see it is every bike goes on the dyno after build to ensure engine is up to scratch, running in happens after this.[/QUOTE]

A random engine will be pulled from a batch and tested,that will determine if the batch gets pulled or goes out for sale....it wouldn’t be very efficient on high production to pull every single bike for dyno time!

Apparently Stihl will take a few from each batch,and without running them in the motors get run to the redline for hours on end: if any fail the batch is pulled.

[QUOTE=chopper;3580599][B]Emm. Running in steadily is also for safety[/B], ie if there is a dodgy bearing/ring/shaft/valve or whatever it'll show up without catapulting the rider off the bike . In my experience a faster run in bike will typically make a little more power but will not last as long .[/QUOTE]

I’d say that’s really all the manufacturers are covering their arse about really,even if you screw a modern engine from the get go 99% of the time it’ll still last long enough to get out of warranty :lbhbh:

BigDiggity 30th September 2019 08:06 AM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=Alex>;3580585]Watch this before you do it.

[URL="https://youtu.be/Ij7-LyOFlUU"]https://youtu.be/Ij7-LyOFlUU[/URL][/QUOTE]

I forgot about this series of videos... a great watch. Thanks for the suggestion. Love the workshop. He fairly puts it in perspective!
:thumbsup2:

Big H 30th September 2019 10:58 AM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=DavyH;3580609]even if you screw a modern engine from the get go 99% of the time it’ll still last long enough to get out of warranty :lbhbh:[/QUOTE]

Exactly - manufacturers don't give a flying fuck what happens to an engine once it's out of warranty.

That's why we see longer & longer service intervals and the proliferation of 'long-life' oils in many engines now - nothing to do with advanced oil technology (to a degree), just there to keep the marketing men/women happy....:thumbsup2:

renniks 30th September 2019 03:27 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
Take anything a Yank says with a Dead Sea's worth of salt!

faz1 30th September 2019 03:45 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=Big H;3580618]Exactly - manufacturers don't give a flying fuck what happens to an engine once it's out of warranty.

That's why we see longer & longer service intervals and the proliferation of 'long-life' oils in many engines now - nothing to do with advanced oil technology (to a degree), just there to keep the marketing men/women happy....:thumbsup2:[/QUOTE]
[url]https://youtu.be/5N2rPw2RnqE[/url]

renniks 30th September 2019 04:08 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=faz1;3580636][url]https://youtu.be/5N2rPw2RnqE[/url][/QUOTE]

Ah it's Del the Bell-end!
Another fucking clown that destroys bikes, and takes fucking ages to do so!
For a newbie, spotting Del's bullshit from ok advice could prove tricky, as he makes out he's a fucking expert in everything (except he really isn't)

renniks 30th September 2019 04:09 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
what's with the site nowadays? video preview overlaps the reply you type in.
Sort it out ffs!

renniks 30th September 2019 04:14 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
Here's another Internet bike-twat, to make up the unholy trimuvirate:


It's Brock the Cock!
[URL="https://youtu.be/32-2XI_-keU"]https://youtu.be/32-2XI_-keU[/URL]

me2 30th September 2019 05:44 PM

[QUOTE=renniks;3580639]Here's another Internet bike-twat, to make up the unholy trimuvirate:


It's Brock the Cock!
[URL="https://youtu.be/32-2XI_-keU"]https://youtu.be/32-2XI_-keU[/URL][/QUOTE]
For God's sake give it a rest ya simply don't understand, the scarcity and hence desirability of appreciating in value classics would never be truly realised without the committed imput from those dedicated professionals, ffs. :lbhbh:

Caffeine 30th September 2019 10:28 PM

[QUOTE=renniks;3580637]Ah it's Del the Bell-end!
Another fucking clown that destroys bikes, and takes fucking ages to do so!
For a newbie, spotting Del's bullshit from ok advice could prove tricky, as he makes out he's a fucking expert in everything (except he really isn't)[/QUOTE]
He started well and then he just overdosed on super slippy copper grease. Possibly recommends adding to pistons on the vid.

TuneR 1st October 2019 09:58 AM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
Think it was MCM that did a break in test that with low revving bikes it didn't matter what way you broke it in.

RTV 1st October 2019 11:07 AM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
I get it from a safety point of view, take it easy while you get used to the bike, scrub tyres, settle everything in.

But from an engine point of view, manufacturers will put bikes on dynos fresh out of the production line and beat the shit out of them. And should anything go wrong, I'd prefer to go wrong during my warranty period.

Just ride it as you normally would and stick to the advised services.

renniks 1st October 2019 11:45 AM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=RTV;3580671]
But from an engine point of view, manufacturers will put bikes on dynos fresh out of the production line and beat the shit out of them. And should anything go wrong, I'd prefer to go wrong during my warranty period.
[/QUOTE]


They may test one out of an entire batch, but they don't put all fluids into every single bike & put each one onto a dyno!!
It's up to the dealer to put all fluids into the bike when they take a new bike out of the crate

Admin 1st October 2019 11:47 AM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=BigDiggity;3580570]How'ya lads.

I'm looking at buying an MT10 in the next week or two and if I do, it will be my first ever brand new bike.

I was reading the FZ10/MT10 forum to try find out in advance what the running in period is like on it... I came across this post which criticizes manufacturer running in techniques and promotes another. I'm hoping some of the more mechanically experienced lads might give their opinion on it. So hear it is....

[I]There are many opinions and methods. I use a version of the motoman break in method. You can read about it here [url]www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm[/url]

The theory is that factories recommend soft break in procedures for reasons of rider safety . They wisely pretend that everyone who buys their bikes are brand new idiot riders, for legal reasons. This is also one of the reasons why USA bikes often have less power than European models, as well as for emission laws.

If you have a brand new unridden bike, 3-6 miles on the bike, then this is MY opinion on how to break it in properly. I say my opinion because if you try this and then pull out in front of a semi and get yourself killed, your family cannot sue me. Take this for what it's worth.

This is ideally done away from traffic on a track or on a country road. Start the bike, do not rev it!! let it warm up no more than 30 seconds.

Take off and rev it to at least 3000 rpm or more in ea gear quickly. AVOID RUNNING AT THE SAME RPM! Run the hell out of it for the first 20 miles. Revving up to 5-6000 rpm and then let off the gas and let it decel down, up to 6000 rpm, let it decel down. Do this for the first twenty miles.

At or around 20 miles on the odometer. Drain the oil, change the filter. Refill with non synthetic.


the first 600 miles, be very careful not to run at the same constant RPM level . Let it rev up a few hundred rpms, back down a few hundred rpm's. Not enough to piss off the car behind you, just little throttle adjustments.

The idea is to let the rings seat and work into the cylinders properly, to avid oil blowby later on after break in.

Change oil and filter again at 600 miles.

[B]Ride normally the next 600mile[/B]s, change oil and filter again at 1200 miles. Then, switch to factory recommended intervals.

Using this method, I have had numerous bikes last well over 100,000 miles. One of my old bikes was sold to a guy five years ago and he is still running original engine at 158,000 miles on it.

Again, this is just what i do, it's just my opinion and differs from "other" break in methods. It's also slightly different from the motorman method listed above.

The worst things you can do to an engine.

1.Baby the engine during break in, especially the first 20 miles. Get on a track or country road and ride it like you stole it.

2.Letting it idle too much in the first 20 miles. Let it warm up for like a minute max. Dont ever rev it while it is in neutral. LEt it warm up for like a minute, maybe two and take off.

3. Riding at the same rpm during the first 600 miles. A new engine needs the wide range of rpm's, dont pin it and leave it there either. Rev up, rev down. Avoid the highway first 600 miles.

4.Revving it while it is just sitting there. Stupid and it's horrible for your bike. Revi it while it is moving only!

Read the motoman link above at the beginning of this thread.

Why dont factories recommend this in the manual? Again, they want you to ride new bikes very carefully for legal reasons. They are afraid that some idiot will try this and get run over by the car behind them on a busy street by revving down. Also, (again this is just my opinion) but what would happen to their sales if all their bikes suddenly started lasting over 150,000 miles? Right...[/I][/QUOTE]


One mans ‘normal’ can seem like complete madness to another.

Bikes are a bit like women; you need to ride them hard from the get-go as a loose engine is a happy engine that delivers peak performance, but they’ve got a limited shelf-life at the top of their game so you need to trade ‘em in before any major mechanical breakdown, and let someone else nurse them around at a more ‘normal’ pace before they inevitably fall apart and end up costing you wagon loads of money.

renniks 1st October 2019 12:24 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=Admin;3580673]One mans ‘normal’ can seem like complete madness to another.

Bikes are a bit like women; you need to ride them hard from the get-go as a loose engine is a happy engine that delivers peak performance, but they’ve got a limited shelf-life at the top of their game so you need to trade ‘em in before any major mechanical breakdown, and let someone else nurse them around at a more ‘normal’ pace before they inevitably fall apart and end up costing you wagon loads of money.[/QUOTE]


[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-wcFU5fZwY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-wcFU5fZwY[/URL]

faz1 2nd October 2019 08:21 PM

Re: Alternative Running-in Technique
 
[QUOTE=Admin;3580673]One mans ‘normal’ can seem like complete madness to another.

Bikes are a bit like women; you need to ride them hard from the get-go as a loose engine is a happy engine that delivers peak performance, but they’ve got a limited shelf-life at the top of their game so you need to trade ‘em in before any major mechanical breakdown, and let someone else nurse them around at a more ‘normal’ pace before they inevitably fall apart and end up costing you wagon loads of money.[/QUOTE]

The women or the bikes? :lbhbh:


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