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  #1  
Old 22nd May 2007, 01:12 AM
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Default Outright grunt or outright flickability?

Hi lads and lassies.

New to the board, I reckon there is a stroker fan or two out there who may be able to develop this arguement a bit!

I moved in late 2005 and as a present for putting up with the missus's choice of location, I bought meself a nice GSXR thou K1. Well done ye say. Nice bike ye say.

I'm still in two minds 18 months later. My previous mount was a Priller RSV250 which did, as Bike mag put it, make me grin like a self abusing ape.

The sozook is stunningly quick, less maintenance, more useful over long distances and (surprisingly) more comfortable, but it's just so damned hard to ride quick in the twisties! I'm only 68Kg and have to work pretty hard to get it to change direction in a hurry, but have achieved another life aim by getting my knee down on a thou. Took a while though and hasn't been repeated too often. On the 250, I loved scaring the shite out of rideout mates by coming around the outside in medium bends and found it much more confidence inspiring on the brakes and cornering, although it used to get a bit lost on the straights. I also wore out two sets of sliders in as many months without really trying.

Now, notwithstanding the loss of the intoxicating smell of racing two stroke, what am I doing wrong? Is it just the extra mass and different behaviour of the engine during decelleration or am I just wussing out of the corners? Am I just geting old? Are there any 4T 400 riders out there who would like to comment?

Oh and before anyone asks, yes I have fallen off while trying too hard in corners, but it was a long time ago and the memory still haunts me!
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  #2  
Old 22nd May 2007, 10:11 AM
Ned Flanders Ned Flanders is offline
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You need a second bike. A DRZ400sm might suit.
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  #3  
Old 22nd May 2007, 10:57 AM
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A mate of mine in the UK was, to be fair, a short arse and was light too ... despite being an exceptinal rider he always stuck with his honda 400 cc bike through thick and thin and could regularly out perform the bigger bikes.
His comment when he was ever asked "why not trade that up a bit?" was simply that he'd found a bike he really enjoyed and that the bigger bikes were just to much like hard work.

At the end of the day you just need to ask yourself which you would prefer a smaller bike that you are more able to fully utilise or a bigger bike that you really have to work for your money??
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  #4  
Old 22nd May 2007, 12:46 PM
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I get a bit of good humoured stick from my fellow club members about not upgrading from the 600 Bandit. In my view the only difference realistically between a 600 and a 1200 Bandit on the road is that you have to drop an extra cog on the 600......

Back on topic, is there room in the garage/garden for another hooligan RS250/RGV250 and something else less manic for the distance/comfort work ?
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  #5  
Old 22nd May 2007, 12:47 PM
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Johnny Wishbone Johnny Wishbone is offline
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Default K1 (mis)handling

Don't worry, it's not you, it's the bike... K1/K2s are notorious for handling like over-fed piggies. Have a play with the geometry & suspension and you should improve it no end, but it will always take a bit of a shove to get it to turn.
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  #6  
Old 22nd May 2007, 01:02 PM
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charlieIRL charlieIRL is offline
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i had a GSXR400 for a couple of years and it was a great little yoke on a twisty road. Like what you said - it got lost on a straight, but on tight roads I never had any problems keepin with bigger bikes at a quick pace.

Only probs was the plonkers on bigger bikes looking down their noses at the petty 400!
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  #7  
Old 22nd May 2007, 01:14 PM
motero motero is offline
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Originally Posted by charlieIRL
i had a GSXR400 for a couple of years and it was a great little yoke on a twisty road. Like what you said - it got lost on a straight, but on tight roads I never had any problems keepin with bigger bikes at a quick pace.

Only probs was the plonkers on bigger bikes looking down their noses at the petty 400!
you r right wooped ass big time on my cbr 400 many years ago... cudn believe it myself at the time... 750/1000 were left in my wake...... many years later... on my blackbird... got my ass kicked by a cbr 250 down the twisties.... its always bit of a compromise..comfort/grunt/two up capabilities/ etc...etc.. its two bikes i think... i have yet to find one that ticks all my boxes... n have had 30 or more
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  #8  
Old 22nd May 2007, 02:32 PM
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the k5/k6 gixxer and 04/05 zx10r are very flickable litre bikes, as is the current blade and the 954 when set up right
id take them any day over the rs250 i had, the rs250 was fun only one on type of road, tiny narrow roads and most of these had such crap surfaces you couldnt use it
i also found it spent most of its time bouncing down the road rather than gripping it
id have one as a toy, but never in replacement of the 1000/600
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  #9  
Old 22nd May 2007, 04:55 PM
twosmokingit twosmokingit is offline
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Hey scorpy.
After 2 years on a ZX9R I took a RGV for a test ride down some county limerick twisty backroads. Oh mama what a difference.
Now I was under no illusions that a ZX9R was a great handling bike but I didnt realise how hard I used to have to work it in the twisties until I took that RGV for a spin.
Grinning like a self abusing ape? Yes I loved it. The scream from the 2 stroke engine geting higher and higher, mixed with the fear that it was going to explode and kill me (heady stuff ), I couldn't believe how well it cornered..
Anyway I bought it. and cant wait to get it on a track.

The other side of the coin though, I cant imagine riding normally for any distance on one. If it was to be my only day to day bike Id agree with batman, 600 or 1000.

Ideally we all need two or three bikes. Wouldn't that be nice.
Ya, I know some of ye lucky bstards do.
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  #10  
Old 22nd May 2007, 05:30 PM
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Yeah, there is space for more stuff in the garage, but as pointed out, the 250 is a little flighty on the kind of road surfaces we have fun on. Tends to go sideways over the bumps rather than track over them. I reckon I could play around with the front end geometry a bit on the gixxer, drop the yokes a few mm and see the effect, but I really need to get the damn thing out on a track where I can go nuts in comfort to find out where my limit on the bike lies.

Also, I reckon when I changed from D208s to Pilot Sports, it made the steering slower, but grip better. Does anyone know what sort of profile the Diablos have, rounded or more triangular? I think I like the quicker tip in and flickability that the triangular profile gives.

What I'd really love is a full RS250 Honda race bike for going completely bonkers on, but me wife would murder me!
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  #11  
Old 22nd May 2007, 05:38 PM
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That's why i love the 400's aswell,it's all about the handling
Having said that in the last few years the litre sports bikes have become lighter and sharper(razorblade),for the last few years they are all around 170kg's! dont know if i could trust myself on one tbh,and losing the licence would be soo easy.....still though
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  #12  
Old 22nd May 2007, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by charlieIRL
i had a GSXR400 for a couple of years and it was a great little yoke on a twisty road. Like what you said - it got lost on a straight, but on tight roads I never had any problems keepin with bigger bikes at a quick pace.

Only probs was the plonkers on bigger bikes looking down their noses at the petty 400!
They are the usually the kind of people that have more money than riding abilty on a bike charlie,decide to buy a litre bike because anything less would be pointless! ha!
Thankfully most peeps with litre bikes will have come up through all the cc classes the proper way and will know too well what a 2 stoke 250 or 400/4 is capable off
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  #13  
Old 22nd May 2007, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 325sport
........the proper way and will know too well what a 2 stoke 250 or 400/4 is capable off
had an X7 there for a few weeks one summer, know all about the joys of a 2 stroke. Had an RD 125LC before and it was wild craic but had to get a new plug for it every feckin week!!

Can't wait to get my mitts on the TZR!
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  #14  
Old 22nd May 2007, 06:25 PM
FlatKnuckles FlatKnuckles is offline
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This is interesting. I like my yoke but it is tough to have fun on. Would anyone be able to put up a small list of alternative bikes for fun? In arround the 250-400cc? I'm thinking of getting a second bike during hte summer to have craic on and take appart and put back together
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  #15  
Old 22nd May 2007, 06:27 PM
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charlieIRL charlieIRL is offline
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Originally Posted by FlatKnuckles
This is interesting. I like my yoke but it is tough to have fun on. Would anyone be able to put up a small list of alternative bikes for fun? In arround the 250-400cc? I'm thinking of getting a second bike during hte summer to have craic on and take appart and put back together
i'd take a 4 stroke 400 over a 2 stroke 250 if you're gonna use it for the summer and leave it standing over the winter.

All are good - FZR, GSXR, NC30/NC35, ZXR but crazy money.
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  #16  
Old 22nd May 2007, 11:14 PM
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For having a hoot:

CBR 250, a bit too much like strangling a budgie for me
CBR 400 gullarm, pricey, but as good as the RSV 250
RSV 250, cheap but mostly knackered over 12000 miles, rear swing arm bushes go at about 15 thou
NSR 250, pricey and electrically complex in the later more desirable models
RGV 250, dunno really, not for the big lads, a late one with ram air maybe

The great thing about these bikes is they tend to kinder to the wallet in running costs. Insurance, tyres, chains etc tend to last longer or be cheaper.

Yeah, the SM route is one I considered before, but with a 50 mile commute each way, I don't think it would be practical, even as a second bike. Not too sure about the DRZ 400, I would be more inclined to go for something a bit more rare, single minded and special, like a CCM 710 factory special, VOR 540 (?) or a converted CR 250 crosser with a total loss electrical system. Still, when you put the wheels on them, they too get a bit pricey. The KTMs are nice too. Plus, they survive crashes really well!

I have to say, for outright hoot and ultra flickability, I reckon the RS 125 priller is a good bet, if you only stick to twisty stuff. Once you know the engine, they aint too bad to work on. Stick a 150 polini kit in it to kick up the mid range a bit and you are laughing. Used to be about 400 pounds extra. Suits me cos I'm only a tiddler.
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  #17  
Old 22nd May 2007, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpy
RGV 250, dunno really, not for the big lads, a late one with ram air maybe
The VJ 23's? Go for crazy money, seen one for 3700 stg a while back
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  #18  
Old 22nd May 2007, 11:26 PM
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****SHARP INTAKE OF BREATH****
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  #19  
Old 22nd May 2007, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpy
****SHARP INTAKE OF BREATH****
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  #20  
Old 22nd May 2007, 11:33 PM
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always fancied a rothmas or repsol nsr250 mc28 sp myself
its a shame they cost about 9 grand and then another few k in nightmares to derestrict
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