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-   -   BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure (http://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=184358)

TBi 24th October 2012 10:47 AM

BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
I have a 2006 BMW R1200RT with whizzy (servo assisted) brakes. Unfortunately there was a failure in the ABS controller so the rear servo didn't work and no abs function on front brake.

Brought it to Jimmy Ellis (fantastic mechanic) who advised me to rip it out and go non-ABS which i did. However my commute has increased and I'm considering getting the ABS unit fixed/replaced for safety reasons.

BMW want to charge an astounding 2000 for a new ABS unit. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and got the ABS unit refurbished? If so where did they get it done.

I know there are varying thoughts on whether ABS is good or not, but i really just want to know where to get the unit fixed in Ireland and how much it would cost.

Big Man Andy 24th October 2012 10:52 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=TBi;2842244]I have a 2006 BMW R1200RT with whizzy (servo assisted) brakes. Unfortunately there was a failure in the ABS controller so the rear servo didn't work and no abs function on front brake.

Brought it to Jimmy Ellis (fantastic mechanic) who advised me to rip it out and go non-ABS which i did. However my commute has increased and I'm considering getting the ABS unit fixed/replaced for safety reasons.

BMW want to charge an astounding 2000 for a new ABS unit. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and got the ABS unit refurbished? If so where did they get it done.

I know there are varying thoughts on whether ABS is good or not, but i really just want to know where to get the unit fixed in Ireland and how much it would cost.[/quote]

I presume you've had it in with Alan in Keary's?

jay boy 24th October 2012 11:08 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Mate had this problem no cheap way out of it, remember
the brakes are your life savers, cost him 1800 when we were
over for the dragon rally. Top tip is to change all the brake
fluids every year that stops the A B S going sorry to give
you the bad news good luck :thumbsup2::thumbsup2::thumbsup2:

Duke RR 24th October 2012 11:13 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Id get it sorted if you feel you need it. No harm to have ABS on a big bike particularly when commuting. Have you done some research on "UKGSER" ? Good site with a lot of knowledge.

As above Alan in Kearsy is sound bloke and will see you right Im sure.

Non related-ish, ABS is a benefit (but shouldnt be compulsory, more optional ) imo.:thumbsup2:

motivlack 24th October 2012 11:40 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
The ABS went on my R1150gs a couple of months ago. 2000 model. Its a common fault. If you dont change the fluid regularly they will stop working. A simple fix(on this model anyway) is to short terminal 1 and 4 together on the diagnostic plug under the seat while holding the abs button down. This resets the unit, and lasts a while if you change the brake fluid also. I came across a great thread on the ukgser.com site that gives a step by step guide to dismantling the cleaning the abs unit, I can dig it out if you like. I havent had to do this yet but looks straight forward enough.
I got used to using the bike without abs but if you like to push it on a bit abs definately helps and I prefer having it. They tend to lock up the rear wheel easily.

TBi 24th October 2012 11:42 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
I had an incident in Keary's 2 years ago, when bringing the bike in for a winter check up, where a mechanic told me my clutch seal was leaking and would cost €1000 to repair, but if i did it there and then i'd get a special price of only €600. Went to Jimmy and he showed me the leaking seal was a tiny one far away from the clutch, wouldn't really cause much damage and repaired it for 60 quid.

Felt quite deceived by this and after a few similar incidents with outrageous repair costs for my cages i just don't trust them. However i've heard there is a very good mechanic working for them now and i'm definitely sure he wasn't the guy who tried to get me to pay €1000.

Just as extra info Jimmy has changed the brake fluid in the bike, the problem with my unit is electrical rather than hydraulic. The back brake circuit doesn't provide voltage to the servo so it seems something on the circuit board is fried. He also tested the brake switch and it's working perfectly. I'd have a look at the board itself but the bike needs it to operate brake lights even without the ABS hydraulic unit.

Also done a lot of research on google and all the big sites. Some sites say you can get it refurbished/fixed but they all link to american sites. I'm trying to find something local to Ireland or even UK, haven't found one yet.

uisce1969 24th October 2012 12:03 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Try Gordan Rowntree dromahair Co.Leitrim 0719164787 . Its the same bike he drives himself and is a bmw man . Not much he cant fix .

Orderofchaos 24th October 2012 12:12 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
If this was a cage problem the manufacturer would probably issue a recall for such a potentially dangerous problem, but it's only a few bikers affected so it seems they don't care. Hope you get it sorted.

Fledermaus 24th October 2012 12:19 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Is it the ABS modulator that is at fault?If so,they are available s/h from motorworks.:thumbsup2:
[url]http://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=10&M=35&Ct=HA&SbCt=BA_10_35_HA_70[/url]

TBi 24th October 2012 01:04 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=Orderofchaos;2842292]If this was a cage problem the manufacturer would probably issue a recall for such a potentially dangerous problem, but it's only a few bikers affected so it seems they don't care. Hope you get it sorted.[/quote]

I was only thinking about it lately, and i just wrote a stinker of an email to BMW ireland, but the fail happened as i was coming down Sundays Well, with my SO on the back, in the rain! Thankfully it was the back brake but god knows what would have happened if it was the front brake. Steep hill, heavy bike, two riders, into a busy junction with basically no brakes...

Blanka 24th October 2012 01:24 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
for 2 grand you could just buy a second bike with abs :lbhbh:

TBi 24th October 2012 01:30 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=Blanka;2842338]for 2 grand you could just buy a second bike with abs :lbhbh:[/quote]

True but wouldn't be as comfy on the long commute as the RT!

Linford Christie 24th October 2012 03:59 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
I've never seen the integral ABS on a 05/06/early 07 give an electrical problem, its normally the pressure problem, only the 07 onwards ABS units suffer (albeit very rarely) power problems

I have done a ridicolous amount of ABS replacements, ABS removals etc on beemers, and 9 times out of 10 its down to the brake fluid sitting in it for too long, BMW say every 2 years, that aint enough, thats why i do it every year

Like i always say to my customers, youve 3 option, new unit (big bucks), 2nd hand unit, you can be lucky to find a reasonably priced one and then the ABS removal

Ive done more removals on the 1150's as the value of them is dropping to make in not worth the money to put a 2k + unit into it, where as im just replacing them 2nd hand on the 1200's, and some with new units

Hope this helps

TBi 24th October 2012 05:27 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
If i could get at the electronics i'd be in a better position to give you an answer but they are buried back under the tank. What Jimmy told me is that when he applied the front brake then ~12V appeared across the power wires for the front servo, when he applied the back brake nothing happened. Could be electronic fail, maybe a dodgy solder joint, or could be the computer not applying voltage because it believes the back servo is gone.

Linford Christie 24th October 2012 05:40 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Well, what I can tell you is I certainly wouldn't be advancing any further without getting that bike onto a diagnostics unit, it's as simple as telling you what the problem is

godofbiomechanics 24th October 2012 06:16 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Excuse the non bmw interjection here but are you off yer fucking heads lads? Ive lost count of the amount of people tell me this tale and im always amazed you still keep the bike and stay brand loyal.
Now ive had some some half finished bikes in my time but non, bar none have ever had such a patently dangerous fault. Granted you can make it to non abs but wtf you paid for abs! CRazy shit imo.

ruane 24th October 2012 06:19 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Know a lad who's servo assisted brakes on his RT failed at speed and he was left with 10% braking on the front calipers. Millions of bikes in the world, 100s of millions of sets of brake calipers working perfectly fine without servos. And BMW go and fuck up a tried tested proven system. If it were me, I'd rip the ABS out (which you've already done) and leave it out. Replacing the servos may fix the ABS for you, but it's only a temp fix and you can bet your life they'll fail again. And I don't mean it as a saying, you will literally be betting your life on it. That lad I know.. Blitzed through a set of red lights at 80k - newlands cross, couple years back, on way to bike show @ RDS.. straight through crossing traffic, how he wasn't killed outright I'll never know

TBi 25th October 2012 08:11 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=Linford Christie;2842485]Well, what I can tell you is I certainly wouldn't be advancing any further without getting that bike onto a diagnostics unit, it's as simple as telling you what the problem is[/quote]

GS911 output is
"24972 Pressure in rear wheel circuit to high The fault is currently present."


[quote=godofbiomechanics;2842525]Excuse the non bmw interjection here but are you off yer fucking heads lads? Ive lost count of the amount of people tell me this tale and im always amazed you still keep the bike and stay brand loyal.
Now ive had some some half finished bikes in my time but non, bar none have ever had such a patently dangerous fault. Granted you can make it to non abs but wtf you paid for abs! CRazy shit imo.[/quote]

I agree it's a bollox. I've no brand loyalty to BMW. Only the RT was recommended for long journeys in comfort and I got a great deal on this one at the time. It's a great bike otherwise though. The boxer has a lot if character.

[QUOTE=ruane;2842528]Know a lad who's servo assisted brakes on his RT failed at speed and he was left with 10% braking on the front calipers. Millions of bikes in the world, 100s of millions of sets of brake calipers working perfectly fine without servos. And BMW go and fuck up a tried tested proven system. If it were me, I'd rip the ABS out (which you've already done) and leave it out. Replacing the servos may fix the ABS for you, but it's only a temp fix and you can bet yo24972 Pressure in rear wheel circuit to high The fault is currently present..

proinnsias 25th October 2012 10:55 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=TBi;2842866]GS911 output is
"24972 Pressure in rear wheel circuit to high The fault is currently present."
[/quote]

Nothing as obvious as the fluid level in the ABS -> Wheel circuit being too high ??
Been known to happen if it wasn't filled with the BMW "Martini glass", and bled properly ... certainly an easy fix if that's all that's wrong !

Alternative causes would be the hose being crimped on the swingarm near where it routes up to the caliper, I seem to recall that's not unheard of when folk take the caliper off for cleaning / changing pads...

P

Linford Christie 25th October 2012 11:20 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=godofbiomechanics;2842525]Excuse the non bmw interjection here but are you off yer fucking heads lads? Ive lost count of the amount of people tell me this tale and im always amazed you still keep the bike and stay brand loyal.
Now ive had some some half finished bikes in my time but non, bar none have ever had such a patently dangerous fault. Granted you can make it to non abs but wtf you paid for abs! CRazy shit imo.[/quote]

You don't change the brake fluids regularly enough, it goes, change it regularly enough, it doesnt go, simples, i have a customer who has an R1200RT with 165k km's on it, i have serviced this bike since day 1 in 2005, never had an ABS problem ever, the most amount of cases of this fault i have seen is bikes that have been serviced by someone without the tools and no how to change the brake fluid in the ABS system, most people wont touch the brake fluid in them because, if done incorrectly, can cause this fault, and no one wants to have to cough up for that, its quite a simple problem to avoid

Linford Christie 25th October 2012 11:21 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=proinnsias;2842968]Nothing as obvious as the fluid level in the ABS -> Wheel circuit being too high ??
Been known to happen if it wasn't filled with the BMW "Martini glass", and bled properly ... certainly an easy fix if that's all that's wrong !

Alternative causes would be the hose being crimped on the swingarm near where it routes up to the caliper, I seem to recall that's not unheard of when folk take the caliper off for cleaning / changing pads...

P[/quote]

I think ive had one case where bleeding the system has fixed it, always worth a shot

Linford Christie 25th October 2012 11:22 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[QUOTE=TBi;2842866]GS911 output is
"24972 Pressure in rear wheel circuit to high The fault is currently present."

Well there you go, that aint an electrical problem, thats the common fault that happens with most faulty ABS units, i have never myself, known someone or been witness to one of these faults being 'fixed' by stripping the unit

chopper 25th October 2012 12:53 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
guy in russoa does em for 200 . ill try root out the info

Linford Christie 25th October 2012 01:04 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=chopper;2843054]guy in russoa does em for 200 . ill try root out the info[/quote]

Please, its always killed me not knowing how or who fixes them

TBi 25th October 2012 01:06 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=Linford Christie;2842985][QUOTE=TBi;2842866]GS911 output is
"24972 Pressure in rear wheel circuit to high The fault is currently present."

Well there you go, that aint an electrical problem, thats the common fault that happens with most faulty ABS units, i have never myself, known someone or been witness to one of these faults being 'fixed' by stripping the unit[/quote]

The pressure is high because the servo isn't spinning up. The servo doesn't get the voltage to spin up by the circuit board.

How would you fix that problem? Or is a new(ish) unit the only way forward?

Or stay ABS less?

I've taken very good care of the bike since I got it, Jimmy is ex BMW and well respected for his skills. It is possible the last owner let it sit with old fluid for too long but I had all fluids changed when I got it 2 years ago.

Linford Christie 25th October 2012 02:07 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=TBi;2843071][quote=Linford Christie;2842985]

The pressure is high because the servo isn't spinning up. The servo doesn't get the voltage to spin up by the circuit board.

How would you fix that problem? Or is a new(ish) unit the only way forward?

Or stay ABS less?

I've taken very good care of the bike since I got it, Jimmy is ex BMW and well respected for his skills. It is possible the last owner let it sit with old fluid for too long but I had all fluids changed when I got it 2 years ago.[/quote]

Yes, that last one right there is probably it, once its sat in it for a length of time, thats the problem

If i was you i'd be going down the 2nd hand route

chopper 25th October 2012 02:11 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
dunno , lots of problems in the states with them and lots of lads saying they change the fluids regular . abs 3 was bullshite and bmw should have recalled imo

TBi 25th October 2012 02:59 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=chopper;2843112]dunno , lots of problems in the states with them and lots of lads saying they change the fluids regular . abs 3 was bullshite and bmw should have recalled imo[/quote]

I wouldn't mind paying the 2k if they fitted the newer ABS instead. The brakes are very good without the servo's. I don't know why they can't retrofit the newer one where the brakes are standard and the servo only kicks when the wheel slips.

Although then that would show that the servo powered ones were a mistake and they'd be liable for people's damages.

TBi 25th October 2012 05:07 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
One question. If i decided to stay ABS less... how the hell do you disable the red warning triangle?

motivlack 25th October 2012 05:14 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=TBi;2843188]One question. If i decided to stay ABS less... how the hell do you disable the red warning triangle?[/quote]

Take the bulb out?

TBi 25th October 2012 05:37 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=motivlack;2843193]Take the bulb out?[/quote]

It's an LED unfortunately, and it also works as a warning light for other things on the bike (low petrol/oil/other stuff) so you can't just tape over it.

motivlack 25th October 2012 05:55 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=TBi;2843210]It's an LED unfortunately, and it also works as a warning light for other things on the bike (low petrol/oil/other stuff) so you can't just tape over it.[/quote]

[IMG]http://photos5.pix.ie/C1/0D/C10DBCF263424F3286829F70FF591511-0000343788-0003056571-00500L-CB3CE0E025534E03BB63A604CB37D0D8.jpg[/IMG]

Frankkilty 25th October 2012 11:08 PM

[quote=motivlack;2843220][URL=http://photos5.pix.ie/C1/0D/C10DBCF263424F3286829F70FF591511-0000343788-0003056571-00500L-CB3CE0E025534E03BB63A604CB37D0D8.jpg]image[/URL][/quote]

Check check

TBi 26th October 2012 08:16 AM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Just realised there are only 30k kms on this 06 bike! Over 20k done in the last 2 years! The previous owners didn't ride it much.

Here is the GS911 printout for the ABS


Integral ABS - CAN
Part No.:
7697383
HW Version No.:
4
Coding Index:
A
Manufacturer:
FTE
Manufacturing Date:
2005-10-28
HWOE No.:
28139667
MCV:
0.5.7
FSV:
1.4.3
OSV:
3.3.0
Assembly No.:
07697383
FTE Serial No.:
03300746X
Hardware No.:
07653569
Hardware star No.:
07697383
ICT barcode:
3E95ED9D
Housing barcode
Part number:
532222804
Serial number:
13938
Internal index number:
1
FTE Serial number of device:
74
Modulator:
080
Main computer date:
2003-02-18
Communication and control computer date:
2005-02-14
Communication and control computer version:
V03.11

1 fault codes found:
24972
Pressure in rear wheel circuit to high
The fault is currently present.

chopper 26th October 2012 12:06 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
when you press the back brake does it stop pumping ?

allsorts&oddjobs 26th October 2012 01:51 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
Just my two cents but before id chuck two grand at it id be inclined to drain the entire system, replace all soft hoses in case of internal collapse, flush it through thoroughly with fresh fluid, chucking away said fluid in case it contains any contaminants then refill and bleed properly. As i said its just what i would do cos at worst itll only be the price of a couple of hoses and some fluid, what do you have to lose?
Im not familiar with the system your working on so if anyone (chopper or other knowledgable person) thinks this would be a waste of time, then i stand open to correction but ive often found that going back to basics can work when more sophisticated methods fail.

TBi 26th October 2012 03:42 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=chopper;2843699]when you press the back brake does it stop pumping ?[/quote]

There are two pumps. The front only spins up, the back one doesn't. We checked the terminals and no voltage is applied across it, whether front or back brake is pushed.

Not sure if flushing will help but if that's all it takes to cause you to lose your brakes then it's worrisome. My mechanic said it might fix the issue short term, that's what he's seen with them.

Frankkilty 27th October 2012 07:40 PM

Short term- two up fully loaded doing the ton- is no good. I've been that soldier. Your better off with standard brakes IMO. Good luck with it.

Porridge 10th December 2012 01:33 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
[quote=TBi;2842326]I was only thinking about it lately, and i just wrote a stinker of an email to BMW ireland, but the fail happened as i was coming down Sundays Well, with my SO on the back, in the rain! Thankfully it was the back brake but god knows what would have happened if it was the front brake. Steep hill, heavy bike, two riders, into a busy junction with basically no brakes... [/quote]

Hey there TBi.
I have the exact same issue with the FTE model of ABS Modulator on a 2006 K1200GT. I haven't found anywhere that repairs the FTE model (which is on the bikes with the Squeely Servo-Assisted brake system). I considered getting a 2nd hand unit from the UK, but when it comes down to it, it is not a case of "if the ABS Modulator Fails", it is "When it fails", so a 2nd hand unit will probably fail in the not too distant future too.

Like yourself, I was content to just get-by without the ABS..... but then I nearly ended up in a wooden box when my brakes failed completely. Tipping along at about 60 to 70 kph in out of town commuter traffic, I touched the front brake to scrub off some speed when a car in front was doing a lane change...... SH7t.... NO BRAKES!!!!! I released the lever and reapplied the brake, and it kicked in like I had dropped an anchor. In the first instance, I nearly ran into the car in front, and then I nearly got hit by the car behind me. Just lucky he was paying attention!

BMW won't admit that there is a "Complete Loss of Braking". The manual says "residual braking function is available"..... like tell that to my underpants!!! I guess there are way too many ABS Modulator failures, so it would cost them too much to do the right thing and have a recall.

Like you, I wrote to BMW to let them know about the Complete Brake Failure. Got a "Dear John, Too Bad, So Sad, don't bother us" response from their Customer Services Manager.

Unfazed 10th December 2012 03:55 PM

Re: BMW R1200 RT ABS Failure
 
It seems absolutely crazy that an ABS failure leads to no brakes, surely if the ABS fails it should revert to "normal" braking.
Most if not all cars have a failsafe built in, if the ABS gives problems it shuts down and reverts to normal brakes. My last car had an ABS failure and when the light came on it reverted to normal braking. Sounds like a no brainer, I would rather crash due to brake lock up than at full speed due to no brakes.
Unfortunately it appears to be from a lack of maintenance in so far as not changing brake fluid regularly. Does anybody know if the brake fluid change appear as routine service on the owner’s manual and have the failures occurred within the specified change time?


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